Has Joel Osteen's preaching saved anyone?

[Humble Disciple]

When Satan is persecuting you in any aspect of your life, plead the blood of Jesus Christ for His spiritual protection.

This doesn’t mean that you’ll never suffer in life, but no harm will befall you that’s contrary to God's purpose in your life.

 

[rlvaughn]

Should we judge John MacArthur by what he preaches from the pulpit or what he says during a Ben Shapiro interview?

Why should it be either/or? Both are his words are they not?

Is there a place (time-wise in the video) you can point to in the over-1-hour video that is what you are particularly referencing? I do not have time to listen to it all right now, though I am sure it is interesting.

 

[AustinC]

When Satan is persecuting you in any aspect of your life, plead the blood of Jesus Christ for His spiritual protection.

This doesn’t mean that you’ll never suffer in life, but no harm will befall you that’s contrary to God's purpose in your life.

Just trust your King. "Plead the blood" is not found anywhere in scripture, but trust God is everywhere.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Whether or not you like Joel Osteen's teachings, they didn't come from the New Thought or new age movements. Instead, they came from his father, John Osteen, a charismatic Baptist:
John Osteen - Wikipedia

John Osteen was a health and wealth, seed faith preacher. That doctrine comes straight from the New Thought Movement.

I used to watch John Osteen from time to time, so I have heard it first-hand. I’ve also studied the New Thought Movement and know practitioners, and it is essentially the same thing with slightly different terminology. Joel Osteen has just added motivational speaking cliches and affirmations to the mix.

While the New Thought movement started around the same time as the Pentecostal/charismatic movement, they are not one and the same.

False.

Pentecostalism began at the beginning of the 20th century, and New Thought began in the 1820s, with Phineas P. Quimby.

You are correct that the two movements are not the same, but New Thought entered Pentecostal/charismatic circles through Kenneth Hagen, who plagiarized the New Thought influenced writing of E.W. Kenyon.

One can certainly be Pentecostal/charismatic without holding to New Thought, but anyone who teaches the prosperity gospel, seed faith, message embraces New Thought false teaching, whether they know it or not.

 

[robycop3]

There's also the pentecostal line, coming from the Azusa St., LA. "revival" of 1906, which spawned the line of Aimee Semple Mc Pherson, Kenneth Hagin, Kathryn Kuhlman, William Branham, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, and others. I think "prosperity", etc. came from that gang, & not just the "speaking in tongues" & the "faith healers" crew. All are phonym as a $3 bill, but if God could use a pagan king of a pagan empire (Nebcuhadnezzar of Babylon) to write some of His word, He can use those "Ministers of Misinformation" to lead people to Jesus by causing them to study the claims of those clowns against Scripture, if nothing else.

 

[Humble Disciple]

I am a convinced Calvinist but, unlike John MacArthur, I'm not a heresy hunter.

We can “agree to disagree” on issues that do not involve salvation or godly living. Our ultimate goal should not be to prove our point but to model the kind of love and acceptance that Jesus showed His disciples (John 13:34–35). No human being has all the answers on every subject. Our goal should be to immerse ourselves in God’s Word so that we recognize error when we hear it. But we must also purpose to approach every non-essential issue with a teachable spirit so that we can best fulfill God’s desire for unity in His church (1 John 4:12). In the words of 17th-century theologian Rupertus Meldenius, “In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.”
In the Christian faith, what issues are truly worth debating? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Humble Disciple]

One can certainly be Pentecostal/charismatic without holding to New Thought, but anyone who teaches the prosperity gospel, seed faith, message embraces New Thought false teaching, whether they know it or not.

I have never heard Joel Osteen claim that if bad things happen to you in life, it’s a sign that your faith wasn’t genuine. Instead, he says keep on having faith and blessing other people until God uses your suffering to demonstrate His glory when your day of vindication comes. In preaching this message, he quotes from the Bible from beginning to end.

Pleading the blood of Jesus for spiritual protection didn't originate with the New Thought movement. In the words of Charles Spurgeon, “Christ’s intercessory power with God lies in His precious blood, and your power and mine with God in prayer must lie in that blood too… How can you ever prevail with God unless you plead the blood of Jesus?” Charles Spurgeon also said, “This precious blood is to be used for overcoming, and consequently for holy warfare. We dishonor it if we do not use it to that end.”

What is Joel Osteen preaching in this sermon that's contrary to the words of Charles Spurgeon?

 

[Humble Disciple]

Unlike his critics, Joel Osteen doesn't take a salary from his church, and neither does he ask for money during his broadcasts. This is not exactly the stereotype of a "health and wealth" preacher.

 

[canadyjd]

….

What is Joel Osteen preaching in this sermon that's contrary to the words of Charles Spurgeon?

He said Jesus forgave all your sins when He died on the cross… I. E. “Your sins are already forgiven.” That is a quote from the link you provided.

Just “claim” what God has already given you. Another quote.

I think Spurgeon would see forgiveness of sins as occurring with faith, not prior.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

Let's just cut to the quick in this thread. No preacher ever saved anyone. God saves, by his grace.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Let's just cut to the quick in this thread. No preacher ever saved anyone. God saves, by his grace.

Exactly. There's enough Biblical teaching in Joel Osteen's message for God to use it to draw His elect unto Himself.

We can “agree to disagree” on issues that do not involve salvation or godly living. Our ultimate goal should not be to prove our point but to model the kind of love and acceptance that Jesus showed His disciples (John 13:34–35). No human being has all the answers on every subject. Our goal should be to immerse ourselves in God’s Word so that we recognize error when we hear it. But we must also purpose to approach every non-essential issue with a teachable spirit so that we can best fulfill God’s desire for unity in His church (1 John 4:12). In the words of 17th-century theologian Rupertus Meldenius, “In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.”
In the Christian faith, what issues are truly worth debating? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Humble Disciple]

He said Jesus forgave all your sins when He died on the cross… I. E. “Your sins are already forgiven.” That is a quote from the link you provided.

Just “claim” what God has already given you. Another quote.

I think Spurgeon would see forgiveness of sins as occurring with faith, not prior.

peace to you

Those are semantical differences or differences in emphasis. The point I was making is that Joel Osteen didn't make up the idea that there's power in the blood of Jesus beyond just the forgiveness of sin, and this idea didn't originate in the New Thought movement, which denies the atonement.

In the words of Charles Spurgeon, “Christ’s intercessory power with God lies in His precious blood, and your power and mine with God in prayer must lie in that blood too... How can you ever prevail with God unless you plead the blood of Jesus?” Charles Spurgeon also said, “This precious blood is to be used for overcoming, and consequently for holy warfare. We dishonor it if we do not use it to that end.”

 

[canadyjd]

Exactly. There's enough Biblical teaching in Joel Osteen's message for God to use it to draw His elect unto Himself.

I would agree with the one sermon you linked to. Given his historical position of not being called to preach the cross of Christ, I hope he has changed his mind.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Those are semantical differences or differences in emphasis. The point I was making is that Joel Osteen didn't make up the idea that there's power in the blood of Jesus beyond just the forgiveness of sin, and this idea didn't originate in the New Thought movement, which denies the atonement.

In the words of Charles Spurgeon, “Christ’s intercessory power with God lies in His precious blood, and your power and mine with God in prayer must lie in that blood too... How can you ever prevail with God unless you plead the blood of Jesus?” Charles Spurgeon also said, “This precious blood is to be used for overcoming, and consequently for holy warfare. We dishonor it if we do not use it to that end.”

You asked how his preaching differed from Spurgeon. I gave an example.

That is a significant difference. To say “your sins are already forgiven you… just claim what God has already given you” compromises the doctrines of repentance and faith, not to mention eternal punishment of the lost.

It certainly lays the foundation for universal salvation. Your sins are already forgiven, you are going yo heaven, just don’t miss out on all of God’s blessings in this life, buy my books and videos and ladies, buy my wife’s books and video does. I’m ok, your ok, and everything is going to be ok.

That is strikingly different from Spurgeon.

peace to you

 

[Humble Disciple]

It certainly lays the foundation for universal salvation.

Would Osteen himself interpret it that way or would he say you must accept Jesus' forgiveness for it to apply to you? Did you watch until the end when he gives the invitation to repent?

buy my books and videos

When does Osteen ever make a sales pitch during his sermons or television broadcasts? Unlike his critics, Osteen doesn't draw a salary from his ministries, and he has no less right to his book sales as a Christian film maker would have from his movies.

It seems like people have taken the stereotype of a televangelist and projected that onto Osteen, who doesn't ask for money during his broadcasts, doesn't try to sell anything, and who doesn't blame your supposed lack of faith if bad things happen to you in life.

We can “agree to disagree” on issues that do not involve salvation or godly living. Our ultimate goal should not be to prove our point but to model the kind of love and acceptance that Jesus showed His disciples (John 13:34–35). No human being has all the answers on every subject. Our goal should be to immerse ourselves in God’s Word so that we recognize error when we hear it. But we must also purpose to approach every non-essential issue with a teachable spirit so that we can best fulfill God’s desire for unity in His church (1 John 4:12). In the words of 17th-century theologian Rupertus Meldenius, “In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.”
In the Christian faith, what issues are truly worth debating? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Humble Disciple]

This video is of Joel Osteen telling the story of how Lakewood church acquired the Compaq Center:

How can one not see this as the work of divine providence? Similarly, I strongly disagree with his Arminianism, and yet I see the work of divine providence in John Wesley's life.

 

[AustinC]

Exactly. There's enough Biblical teaching in Joel Osteen's message for God to use it to draw His elect unto Himself.

Joel Osteen is a false teacher. If God saves anyone when he preaches, it will only be because the person started reading the Bible during Osteen's speech and the Bible convicted them. Osteen is likely not even saved himself.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Joel Osteen is a false teacher. If God saves anyone when he preaches, it will only be because the person started reading the Bible during Osteen's speech and the Bible convicted them. Osteen is likely not even saved himself.

Are you basing that on what Osteen actually teaches from the pulpit or are you just parroting what John MacArthur and his ilk have told you?

Unlike John MacArthur, Joel Osteen doesn't take a salary from his ministries, and his family isn't under SEC investigation.

The Prosperous Lifestyle of America's Anti-Prosperity Gospel Preacher | The Roys Report

Pot, meet kettle. Unlike other televangelists, neither does Osteen ask for money on his broadcasts or attempt to sell anything.

When we were trying to acquire our current facility, the former Compaq Center, there was one man I really wanted to get on our team. We needed to have the Houston City Council members vote for us because it was a city-owned facility. This one man knew all the people in the city. He was very influential. I thought if we could just get him on board, then surely we would get the votes that we needed. I called and called, but for some reason, he wouldn't call me back. I knew friends who knew him. They put in a good word for me. Still nothing. At one point, we got word back that this man was actively against us. He wasn't in neutral; he was on the opposing team! At that point, I realized I couldn't make this happen in my own strength. I quit trying to manipulate things and trying to convince everybody. I said, "God, it's in Your hands. I know You already have the right people lined up. I know You already have it figured out. So God, I'm just going to stay in that place of peace."

We needed ten votes from the City Council members. Two days before the main vote, we only had nine. But, a young Jewish councilmember that had been against us for two years suddenly changed his mind and voted for us. It was his vote that gave us the victory.

He told me later, "Joel, you were very persuasive, but you were not the reason that I changed my mind." He went on to tell about this elderly Jewish lady that called him out of the blue. He hadn't spoken to her in over 20 years, but he had great respect for her. He grew up with her. She told him in no uncertain terms that he was to vote for Lakewood having the Compaq Center. He said, "It was her phone call that changed my mind."

Now, I couldn't make that happen in my own strength, but God already had somebody lined up that could make it happen. The amazing thing is that I didn't know the woman and still don't. I never talked to her, never asked her to call. That was the hand of God orchestrating it all.
If God Is For You

If you don't see the above story as the work of God's providence, that might say more about you than it does about Joel Osteen. Unlike the scribes and Pharisees, however, I am not doubting your salvation. (Luke 18:9-14)

 

[canadyjd]

I’ve seen enough to not like what he’s peddling.

You go ahead and bash Johnny Mac and praise Olsteen.

That just might say more about you than either of them.

I’ll leave you to it.

peace to you

 

[Humble Disciple]

You go ahead and bash Johnny Mac and praise Olsteen.

I have not said anything negative about John MacArthur other than his joylessness when preaching and his hypocrisy, two things that are not shared by Joel Osteen, no matter what you might have to say about him.

The Prosperous Lifestyle of America's Anti-Prosperity Gospel Preacher | The Roys Report