A Pentecostal-Charismatic theologian who recognizes Joel Osteen as a great communicator and appreciates numerous things about him discusses The Main Thing that Concerns Me about Joel Osteen’s Theology.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Has Joel Osteen's preaching saved anyone?
- Thread starter Humble Disciple
- Start date
- Status
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
2 Timothy 2:23-24
Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Romans 14:1-15:7
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
15 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.” 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
2 Timothy 2:23-24
Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Romans 14:1-15:7
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
15 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.” 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
Another asinine post.
Looks like our Humble Disciple,. is a self-righteous judge, evidently gifted to be critical of godly pastors, while extolling false teachers and heretics.
Phil Johnson Responds to Hit Piece Trying to Discredit John MacArthur
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Phil Johnson Covers Up John MacArthur’s Extraordinary Compensation & Lifestyle in Devious Statement to The Christian Post & Interview with Justin Peters - BrentDetwiler.com -
Matthew 7
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
It seems like John MacArthur needs to clean his own side of the street before criticizing Joel Osteen again, who, unlike MacArthur, doesn't take a salary from his ministries.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
2 Timothy 2:23-24
Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Romans 15:5-7
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
I read the article and I believe it's a caricature of Joel Osteen's message, which doesn't mean that I agree with everything that Osteen has to say.
I have never heard Joel Osteen claim that if bad things happen to you in life, it’s a sign that your faith wasn’t genuine. Instead, he says keep on having faith and blessing other people until God uses your suffering to demonstrate His glory when your day of vindication comes.
In the words of Charles Spurgeon, “Christ’s intercessory power with God lies in His precious blood, and your power and mine with God in prayer must lie in that blood too… How can you ever prevail with God unless you plead the blood of Jesus?” Charles Spurgeon also said, “This precious blood is to be used for overcoming, and consequently for holy warfare. We dishonor it if we do not use it to that end.”
"Humble Disciple,
17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Ministry leaders blast whistleblower – Baptist News Global
detwiller sounds like a bit of a slime....
17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Ministry leaders blast whistleblower – Baptist News Global
detwiller sounds like a bit of a slime....
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I admit I’m not an expert on either man. I have heard Johnny Mac preach in person and was astonished by his knowledge of scripture, biblical languages and the ability to demonstrate context in the immediate passages and broader understanding of doctrine. He is a master biblicist, and a great preacher, no matter what you have to say about him.
His sermon was serious, but I didn’t consider it “joyless”; however, I don’t listen to sermons to be entertained.
Perhaps that’s the difference. Olsteen will certainly entertain you, while Johnny Mac will give you a thorough understanding of God’s word, if a person will listen.
peace to you
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Joel Osteen, unlike John MacArthur, isn't a butthead to anyone who disagrees with him.
MacArthur blasts Beth Moore, accuses SBC of rejecting biblical authority
John MacArthur routinely using his pulpit to attack others, especially over seemingly trivial matters.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
2 Timothy 2:23-24
Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Romans 15:5-7
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
How many of Joel's sermons have you listened to? Just wondering; serious question. Whether you have listened to few or many really affects the value of what you have not heard Joel Osteen claim.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
What makes Joel Osteen different from prosperity Gospel teachers?
What did Joel Osteen do for the people of Houston after Hurricane Harvey, contrary to the media narrative?
None of that answers the question as to how reliable your having not heard Joel Osteen make a claim is. What I am getting at is that Joel Osteen has been preaching 20 something years. If he preaches just 3 times a week he could have easily preached 3000 sermons. If someone has listened to ten of his sermons (just pulling that number out of a hat) he might be well qualified to talk about what he heard in ten sermons, but highly unqualified to talk about what he has not heard in 2990 sermons.
Again, the video I posted showed him false teaching. Osteen does not preach Christ and Christ crucified. What he preaches is a distraction from the truth meant to build up the pride of man and reduce the Spirit's conviction of sin.
God is not supporting Joel Osteen and it is telling of your discernment that you do support him.
So stop pimping a charlatan and we all can avoid this discussion. You are guilty of creating a question purposely devised to be contentious. Repent
Humble Disciple
Active Member
As I've said on this forum before, what I don't like about Joel Osteen is that his theology lacks substance, but that doesn't mean he's a heretic and a swindler.
While his theology might not be my own, at least it's Bible-based and, unlike his critics, he doesn't take a salary from his ministries.
He's good to hear when you need Christian motivation, but I wouldn't attend a church that had him as a pastor.
My ideal pastor would be more like John Piper. While Piper has a message of Christian hedonism, it's not all he talks about. Neither is Piper doctrinaire and joyless like John MacArthur.
While his theology might not be my own, at least it's Bible-based and, unlike his critics, he doesn't take a salary from his ministries.
He's good to hear when you need Christian motivation, but I wouldn't attend a church that had him as a pastor.
My ideal pastor would be more like John Piper. While Piper has a message of Christian hedonism, it's not all he talks about. Neither is Piper doctrinaire and joyless like John MacArthur.
Satan used the Bible, speaking God's word against Adam and Jesus. Merely speaking the words of the Bible does not make a preacher one whom we should lift up. Does Osteen preach Christ and Christ crucified, alone, for the remission of sins?
This is my last statement to you on this thread. You speak like one who comes from the church of Thyatira. You tolerate Jezabel.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
John MacArthur isn't God, and neither is Joel Osteen.
Bassoonery
Active Member
@Humble Disciple , I understand the original point of your post. Just as there may conceivably be saved Christians who happen to be misled and stuck in a false church, I suppose there may be saved people attending Lakewood who just don't realise that they are not getting fed properly by the Word of God. Personally, Osteen gives me the creeps. It saddens me to see just how many of his books and sermons have been translated into the local language where I currently live.
I watch a lot of Steve Kozar's videos. They have been doing a series of commentating on sermons by controversial teachers. I suggest you check out their Joel Osteen videos. Keep in mind that they are Lutherans who came out of an NAR church after realising what was wrong. I don't think they would say that they were not saved while they were attending that NAR church though.
I watch a lot of Steve Kozar's videos. They have been doing a series of commentating on sermons by controversial teachers. I suggest you check out their Joel Osteen videos. Keep in mind that they are Lutherans who came out of an NAR church after realising what was wrong. I don't think they would say that they were not saved while they were attending that NAR church though.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Since I've never had an in-depth conversation with a rabbi or visited a synagogue, I'm not going to make a definitive statement whether or not Jews are going to hell.
It's quite clear to me that Jews and Christians believe in the same God, with the main difference being that Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah, due to the Old Testament prophecies which are yet to be fulfilled until His second coming.
I'm not going to say the same for Muslims, because Islam seems to be a perversion of Christianity, rather than a religion that preceded it, for which God already formed a covenant.
It's quite clear to me that Jews and Christians believe in the same God, with the main difference being that Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah, due to the Old Testament prophecies which are yet to be fulfilled until His second coming.
I'm not going to say the same for Muslims, because Islam seems to be a perversion of Christianity, rather than a religion that preceded it, for which God already formed a covenant.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Doesn't Romans say, in reference to the Jewish people, that the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable? How should we interpret this?
- Status