Has Prophecy Really Ceased ?

[awaken]

Fine. Give me the source, the software source for your mistaken definitions. It is only intellectual, scholarly honesty to do so, besides being a rule here on the BB.

One thing I know, you sure didn't get your definitions from any Greek or Hebrew dictionary or lexicon. No Hebrew or Greek scholar would give those definitions. Whatever your source was, they were certainly not a scholar.

Do you have any idea how proud you sound? As if you had studied prophecy and no one else has? I've studied out prophecy extensively in the Scriptures, done two 12 lecture DVD sets in Japanese on prophecy, taught through several of the prophetic books in Japanese Bible schools. Yet I don't have the arrogance to say to you, "Study out prophecy" as if you've done no study. I think your studies have led you to the wrong conclusions, but I don't treat you like a new believer.

Your whole attitude from the start here on the BB has been that pride, as if you had discovered things never before thought of, and you have everything absolutely right so every one should sit at your feet. And I don't recall you ever once admitting you were wrong. And you actually expect us all to swallow all you say. That's the Charismatic movemen for you.

No, I only share what I have learned. I have been on both sides of this debate. I share scriptures...when I believed the way most do here, the scriptures contradict each other. You have to ignore or explain away too many scriptures to believe that the Holy Spirit does not manifest himself the same as He did when He was given to the belivers on the Day of Pentecost.

 

[awaken]

Step up and face the truth. You tell others that such gifts as miracles, healing, tongues, prophesy, signs and wonders, are available to them, but you cannot demonstrate a single one of them today. That is hypocrisy. That is the truth. And you can't face it.

Even if I could demonstrate it on the forum..you still would not believe! As I have said before the Holy Spirit is not at my beck and call to demostrate..it is at His will not mine.

Yes, and there are green aliens living on Mars and the Holy Spirit is manifesting Himself there too. You live in a dream world--one where you get to redefine Biblical words for your own convenience. The very things that you mentioned have ceased. You have the counterfeit. It is obvious that nothing above is the genuine gift.

Do you know how desperate these kind of statements make you look!

I have prayed many times for healing, and God has healed. So what? Praise the Lord that God heals. That doesn't mean I have the gift of healing. It doesn't mean you do either. It means that God answers prayer, and that is all. The OT saints had their prayers answered and Pentecost hadn't even come yet. Do you remember Hezekiah? He prayed for healing. God told Isaiah to go and tell him that he would be healed, and he was. There was no special anointing. God is a God that answers prayer. There is no gift of healing today. If there was we would see large mass healings on the scale of Acts 5:16, but we don't.

You don't have a "word of knowledge," and never did. If you do, you are a heretic! It is a revelatory gift for giving revelation. We have the Bible. For you to be claiming to be adding to the Bible is heresy. That is the Biblical "word of knowledge." It is a revelatory gift.

As per, 1Cor.13:8, prophecy has also ceased. If you had prophesied you would also be a heretic. You are claiming to have the gift of prophesy. The again is a revelatory gift. You would be adding to the Bible, claiming to have revelation when none is needed, and all is finished. You change the meanings of Biblical terminology to fit your own man-made religion started just 100 years ago, and never heard of before that. You throw away 1900 years of Christianity and claim that they are all wrong. Unbelievable!

No, you are taking away from the Word! I have shown scriptures for everything I believe.

DHK, you have made your choice and I have made mine..and we will never agree on this! What God has given me you or your unbelief concerning this can not take it away from me!

 

[thomas15]

NO, I am not called to be a prophet. Start at Acts 2 where it says who can prophesy. There is so much more about the manifestations of the Holy Spirit that is not taught in most churches.

So then others besides you are prophets or prophecy. You learn valuable information from them?

 

[awaken]

So then others besides you are prophets or prophecy. You learn valuable information from them?

I do not know any prophets. Maybe you can start by telling me what you actually believe prophesy is. Because I do not know where you are going with all this.

 

[DHK]

Even if I could demonstrate it on the forum..you still would not believe! As I have said before the Holy Spirit is not at my beck and call to demostrate..it is at His will not mine.

I would believe a miracle if you did one and had it witnessed and documented. What are you going to do? Walk on water perhaps? You could have it video taped as well. It is too bad about the Holy Spirit though. The Bible tells us to "be filled with the Holy Spirit." The verb is in the continuous present, meaning to be continuously filled with Holy Spirit. I am sorry that you have such an up and down experience with him.

Do you know how desperate these kind of statements make you look!

I am not the one that is desperate. You deliberately change the meanings of theological terms to make them fit into your mode of thinking; your religion. There is a name for that. It is called neo-orthodoxy. It is taking the traditional orthodox terminology of the Bible and giving them "new" meanings. Liberal theologians did it, and then cults like the SDA.

No, you are taking away from the Word! I have shown scriptures for everything I believe.

I believe the Bible literally. How can I add to it? I don't have any "gifts" of revelation, nor claim to. You do that.

DHK, you have made your choice and I have made mine..and we will never agree on this! What God has given me you or your unbelief concerning this can not take it away from me!

You are right. I rely on the Word of God, the Bible. And you rely on emotionalism and experiences. There is a vast difference. I will never take your experiences away from you. You will always have them. We all do. But that doesn't speak for if they are Biblical or not. Don't rely on your emotions to guide you through life.

 

[awaken]

I would believe a miracle if you did one and had it witnessed and documented. What are you going to do? Walk on water perhaps? You could have it video taped as well. It is too bad about the Holy Spirit though. The Bible tells us to "be filled with the Holy Spirit." The verb is in the continuous present, meaning to be continuously filled with Holy Spirit. I am sorry that you have such an up and down experience with him.

Your comments show your desperate attempt to prove your theory. You have to have a sign to believe....faith is believing the Word before you see it. Not all are called to miracles! I have mentioned only a few gifts that have manifested in my life. But this forum is not about me..it is about His Word. So Prophecy has not ceased and no one has shown where it has.

[quore]I am not the one that is desperate. You deliberately change the meanings of theological terms to make them fit into your mode of thinking; your religion. There is a name for that. It is called neo-orthodoxy. It is taking the traditional orthodox terminology of the Bible and giving them "new" meanings. Liberal theologians did it, and then cults like the SDA.[/quote] No, I am at peace with what the Holy Spirit has shed light to in His Word. Maybe if you would quit attacking my walk with God and stick to defending what you believe with scriptures we will get somewhere...otherwise this back and forth stuff is getting boring!

I believe the Bible literally. How can I add to it? I don't have any "gifts" of revelation, nor claim to. You do that.

Then stick to scriptures and quit attacking my walk with my Saviour!

You are right. I rely on the Word of God, the Bible. And you rely on emotionalism and experiences. There is a vast difference. I will never take your experiences away from you. You will always have them. We all do. But that doesn't speak for if they are Biblical or not. Don't rely on your emotions to guide you through life.

Everything I have experienced is backed up with scriptures! So lets stick to scriptures!

 

[thomas15]

I do not know any prophets. Maybe you can start by telling me what you actually believe prophesy is. Because I do not know where you are going with all this.

Prophecy is history that hasn't happend yet.

Now, you tell us what you think prophecy is.

 

[Iconoclast]

Everything I have experienced is backed up with scriptures! So lets stick to scriptures!

You are going outside of scripture. No one here is going with you.We stay where God says to stay.We have all the revelation that is being given.
We are baptists for a reason. You have left the reservation. You do not want what scripture offers as you have your mind made up.

 

[DHK]

Your comments show your desperate attempt to prove your theory.

I don't have a theory; I have facts. The facts of the Bible are the facts that I choose to believe. You have chosen to believe something novel; something that grew out of paganism 100 years ago, and before that time was unheard of except in pagan religions and in cults. You have disregarded 1900 years of Christianity. I believe the Bible; you believe in experiences, emotionalism, and novelties.

You have to have a sign to believe....faith is believing the Word before you see it.

You are wrong on both counts.
I certainly don't need a sign to believe you. I don't need to believe you.
And you are the one that advocates signs and wonders and their availability to others, even though you can't perform one yourself.

That is inspite of what the Bible says. Jesus said:
An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.

You definition of faith is a definition for "fate," not "faith."
It is the Islamic belief, "Kismet." If a Muslim young man straps a bomb on himself and blows himself up in the name of Allah he believes "by blind faith" that he will go to paradise (things unseen). That is fate. It is an Islamic belief and your definition of faith is no different.

Faith is confidence in the word of another, and in this case confidence in God, and His word.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The more you hear the word of God, the more confidence you will have in God and his promises. The more you spend time with him the more you will get to know him. Faith is not blind. It is not fate. It is not a magical toy.

Abraham defines faith:
Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
--Abraham was fully persuaded that what God had promised, God would do. That is faith. It is confidence or trust in God.

Not all are called to miracles! I have mentioned only a few gifts that have manifested in my life. But this forum is not about me..it is about His Word. So Prophecy has not ceased and no one has shown where it has.

Not all are called.... But you said all gifts are available but you give no indication that you have any of them. You tell others of the great and mighty things they can do, and then sit back and simply tell them (somewhat hypocritically) that God hasn't "called" you to do those things. Has he called you to witness to anyone?

You have mentioned a few gifts, but you redefine them, defining them in your terms rather then what the Bible says. We might as well redefine salvation if we are to keep going down that route. And, this forum is about you. As long as you keep putting stuff up here, you be prepared to defend it. Do you think you can come along and post all this nonsense and then sit back and say: "It is not about me." It most certainly is!! You put it there. You said it. You defend it: personal or not.

I am not the one that is desperate. You deliberately change the meanings of theological terms to make them fit into your mode of thinking; your religion. There is a name for that. It is called neo-orthodoxy. It is taking the traditional orthodox terminology of the Bible and giving them new meanings. Liberal theologians did it, and then cults like the SDA.

No, I am at peace with what the Holy Spirit has shed light to in His Word. Maybe if you would quit attacking my walk with God and stick to defending what you believe with scriptures we will get somewhere...otherwise this back and forth stuff is getting boring!

The Holy Spirit does not lead people to change the meanings of words in the Bible. He put them there for a reason. You have done this with John of Japan and with Biblicist. They give you authoritative sources, accurate definitions, reliable explanations, and you reject it all, and all on the basis of your own authority. You have become your own authority against all these others. The Holy Spirit doesn't work that way.

Everything I have experienced is backed up with scriptures! So lets stick to scriptures!

You don't use the Scripture. I challenge you to use the Scripture. I have been asking you, for example, to give a solid, logical and Scriptural defense for a private prayer language. You don't want to do that. You would rather stick to your experience rather than the Bible. "It is true because I do it, not because the Bible says it."

 

[awaken]

Prophecy is history that hasn't happend yet.

Now, you tell us what you think prophecy is.

Prophecy on a personal level is for the church! It edifies, exhorts and comforts! I explained what I know prophecy to be.

After you read 1 Cor. 12-14..what do you understand about prophecy?

After reading Acts 2 where it says sons and daughters shall prophesy. What do you understand there?

Prophecy is for the believers! (1 Cor.14:22)
Prophecy reveals the secrets of the hearts of unbelievers. (1 Cor.14:25)
1 Cor. 14:31 says that all may prophesy one by one, all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Explain those scriptures?

 

[awaken]

You are going outside of scripture. No one here is going with you.We stay where God says to stay.We have all the revelation that is being given.
We are baptists for a reason. You have left the reservation. You do not want what scripture offers as you have your mind made up.

No, I am just going outside your box that you feel comfortable in! I have been in that box! The scriptures can not be explained away!

 

[awaken]

I don't have a theory; I have facts. The facts of the Bible are the facts that I choose to believe. You have chosen to believe something novel; something that grew out of paganism 100 years ago, and before that time was unheard of except in pagan religions and in cults. You have disregarded 1900 years of Christianity. I believe the Bible; you believe in experiences, emotionalism, and novelties.

You are wrong on both counts.
I certainly don't need a sign to believe you. I don't need to believe you.
And you are the one that advocates signs and wonders and their availability to others, even though you can't perform one yourself.

That is inspite of what the Bible says. Jesus said:
An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.

You definition of faith is a definition for "fate," not "faith."
It is the Islamic belief, "Kismet." If a Muslim young man straps a bomb on himself and blows himself up in the name of Allah he believes "by blind faith" that he will go to paradise (things unseen). That is fate. It is an Islamic belief and your definition of faith is no different.

Faith is confidence in the word of another, and in this case confidence in God, and His word.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The more you hear the word of God, the more confidence you will have in God and his promises. The more you spend time with him the more you will get to know him. Faith is not blind. It is not fate. It is not a magical toy.

Abraham defines faith:
Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
--Abraham was fully persuaded that what God had promised, God would do. That is faith. It is confidence or trust in God.

Not all are called.... But you said all gifts are available but you give no indication that you have any of them. You tell others of the great and mighty things they can do, and then sit back and simply tell them (somewhat hypocritically) that God hasn't "called" you to do those things. Has he called you to witness to anyone?

You have mentioned a few gifts, but you redefine them, defining them in your terms rather then what the Bible says. We might as well redefine salvation if we are to keep going down that route. And, this forum is about you. As long as you keep putting stuff up here, you be prepared to defend it. Do you think you can come along and post all this nonsense and then sit back and say: "It is not about me." It most certainly is!! You put it there. You said it. You defend it: personal or not.

The Holy Spirit does not lead people to change the meanings of words in the Bible. He put them there for a reason. You have done this with John of Japan and with Biblicist. They give you authoritative sources, accurate definitions, reliable explanations, and you reject it all, and all on the basis of your own authority. You have become your own authority against all these others. The Holy Spirit doesn't work that way.

You don't use the Scripture. I challenge you to use the Scripture. I have been asking you, for example, to give a solid, logical and Scriptural defense for a private prayer language. You don't want to do that. You would rather stick to your experience rather than the Bible. "It is true because I do it, not because the Bible says it."

Your rambling is getting boring! I have never changed any meaning!
I will open another thread on praying in the spirit if you would like and lay out my beliefs! But I have done that over and over in every thread..because you keep bringing it up!
I have never sought after any sign! As I have repeatedly posted! I was in the process of disproving it when I came across the truth! So your accusations are false as always!

 

[Iconoclast]

No, I am just going outside your box that you feel comfortable in! I have been in that box! The scriptures can not be explained away!

They only need to be properly understood.The Historic church has it right.
You are coming with these false ideas.You redefine sign gifts ,signs of an apostle to be the norm.They are not. God has once for all time spoken In Son.
The apostles were allowed to complete the revelation for us as foundational. Jesus and the apostles did not forget to tell us anything.
We do not need you telling us......

roko boko cummo se quo rotoshiki brogotto.....

we can do without this" important message"...we really can.

You can take these clowns with you;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixOr_bT0mOk

 

[awaken]

They only need to be properly understood.The Historic church has it right.
You are coming with these false ideas.You redefine sign gifts ,signs of an apostle to be the norm.They are not. God has once for all time spoken In Son.
The apostles were allowed to complete the revelation for us as foundational. Jesus and the apostles did not forget to tell us anything.
We do not need you telling us......

roko boko cummo se quo rotoshiki brogotto.....

we can do without this" important message"...we really can.

You can take these clowns with you;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixOr_bT0mOk

The historical church is in the Book of Acts! Throughout history we have been fed unbelief concerning what is real and what is not! I will trust His Word on what the church is to manifest today!
Maybe if you will stick to what is real and not the fake you will get a better understanding of His Word concerning this!

 

[thomas15]

Prophecy on a personal level is for the church! It edifies, exhorts and comforts! I explained what I know prophecy to be.

After you read 1 Cor. 12-14..what do you understand about prophecy?

After reading Acts 2 where it says sons and daughters shall prophesy. What do you understand there?

Prophecy is for the believers! (1 Cor.14:22)
Prophecy reveals the secrets of the hearts of unbelievers. (1 Cor.14:25)
1 Cor. 14:31 says that all may prophesy one by one, all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Explain those scriptures?

I will respond to this right after you explain the following:

1 John 4:1-2
Acts 13:6-12
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 24:11-12
Matthew 26:68
Mark 13:22
Revelation 2:20

You seem to either not know or do not care that the early church did not have the Bible like we do today. That Book, is God's revelation to man. Any additions and subtractions are not permitted.

 

[awaken]

I will respond to this right after you explain the following:

1 John 4:1-2
Acts 13:6-12
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 24:11-12
Matthew 26:68
Mark 13:22
Revelation 2:20

You seem to either not know or do not care that the early church did not have the Bible like we do today. That Book, is God's revelation to man. Any additions and subtractions are not permitted.

Well you assume to much! I am not ignorant of the fact that they did not have the Bible as we do. But that does not mean the Holy Spirit has ceased manifesting through the church today...one of them being prophesy!
I agree that the Bible is God's complete written will for us. But His written word tells of the 9 manifestations that are for the church and will not cease until we see face to face and know as we are known.
As far as your verses go...I am not a false prophet! I am not a prophet at all! More than just prophets prophecy! Read Acts 2 and 19 for starters.
IF they were warning of false prophets...must mean there are real ones around! Just because there are false prophets and prophesies does not mean the real is not!

 

[DHK]

IF they were warning of false prophets...must mean there are real ones around! Just because there are false prophets and prophesies does not mean the real is not!

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

According to your logic, because there are many antichrists walking this earth, and others claiming to be Christ; then Christ also is walking this earth. Do you know where he is? Have you shaken his hand lately?

 

[DHK]

Your rambling is getting boring! I have never changed any meaning!
I will open another thread on praying in the spirit if you would like and lay out my beliefs! But I have done that over and over in every thread..because you keep bringing it up!
I have never sought after any sign! As I have repeatedly posted! I was in the process of disproving it when I came across the truth! So your accusations are false as always!

Your definition of speaking in tongues is not the Biblical one.
Your definition of the gift of healing is not the Biblical one.
Your definition of the word of knowledge is not the Biblical one.
You definition of the gift of prophesy is not the Biblical one.
Your definition of the gift of knowledge (1Cor.13:8) is not Biblical, for you can't even define it, and don't know what it is. On that you are completely ignorant.

Would you like me to go on? I believe there are 21 spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible. How many do you have, and how many have you redefined to fit your own little religion that you carry around with you, perhaps in your side pocket. You take it out when you want to be spiritual, put it back in when you want to act like the rest of the world. It is very convenient isn't it? It is much harder to live a consistent sanctified and sacrificial life for the Lord on a day by day basis.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

 

[awaken]

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

According to your logic, because there are many antichrists walking this earth, and others claiming to be Christ; then Christ also is walking this earth. Do you know where he is? Have you shaken his hand lately?

The Spirit of Christ is in all believers! Antichrist is against that Spirit!

 

[awaken]

Your definition of speaking in tongues is not the Biblical one.
Your definition of the gift of healing is not the Biblical one.
Your definition of the word of knowledge is not the Biblical one.
You definition of the gift of prophesy is not the Biblical one.
Your definition of the gift of knowledge (1Cor.13:8) is not Biblical, for you can't even define it, and don't know what it is. On that you are completely ignorant.

Would you like me to go on? I believe there are 21 spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible. How many do you have, and how many have you redefined to fit your own little religion that you carry around with you, perhaps in your side pocket. You take it out when you want to be spiritual, put it back in when you want to act like the rest of the world. It is very convenient isn't it? It is much harder to live a consistent sanctified and sacrificial life for the Lord on a day by day basis.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

God said we should not be ignorant of spiritual gifts! Address the subject and stay off of me personally!!