Has the Country/Nation/Church Changed?

[righteousdude2]

Simple question for you to respond to and add a comment if led.

Has the nation/country changed, and is the change for the good or bad of our society, culture and America in general? :wavey:

 

[righteousdude2]

Church and Society changed because?

For both, I'd have to say, the people have become too liberal, and wishy-washy!

Sort of like Revelation (thanks Fred), where the church is accused of becoming "lukewarm" and if the church and this nation and society do not return to the fundamentals of the Biblical world view of the message within His Word; we will definitely be spewed from his mouth!

 

[Steadfast Fred]

For both, I'd have to say, the people have become too liberal, and wishy-washy!

Sort of like Revelations, where the church is accused of becoming "lukewarm" and if the church and this nation and society do not return to the fundamentals of the Biblical world view of the message within His Word; we will definitely be spewed from his mouth!

Haven't read that one. Who is the author? I read Revelation, and it sounds identical.

 

[righteousdude2]

Got it.....

Haven't read that one. Who is the author? I read Revelation, and it sounds identical.

....now try answering the question? :wavey: I'd have bet the ranch that you and the wife would have an opinion on the changes in America, our society and especially the church! :thumbs:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Answered in the poll, but yes, America has changed... For the worse. Any man of God can see that. From removing the Bible reading from schools, to removing Biblical discipline from the home, to abortion clinics, to media praise of alcohol, to sodomite marriage, etc..

We have been on a downward slide since the last half of the twentieth century.

 

[righteousdude2]

Thanks, Fred!

Answered in the poll

Are you as depressed with the moral decline as I am? I try to stay focused on Jesus, but, living in the heartland of sin [California] and liberalism, makes life a chore, at times. Which is why I say: Marantha, come Lord, come!

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Not really depressed. But it is sad to see the decline. I know we must be fast approaching the hour when God says, Enough is enough!!!

 

[saturneptune]

Answered in the poll, but yes, America has changed... For the worse. Any man of God can see that. From removing the Bible reading from schools, to removing Biblical discipline from the home, to abortion clinics, to media praise of alcohol, to sodomite marriage, etc..

We have been on a downward slide since the last half of the twentieth century.

Not true. The decade of the 1920s, (before the last half of the twentieth century) was one of the most immoral decades in American history. The decades of the 30s and 40s, Americans grew up and faced the Depression and WW2 with great courage. You said the downward slide started after 1950. Actually the 50s had a population that still believed in morality and Christian values. We were at peace with very little rebellion.

Yes, the 60s in the latter half was rampant with drugs and illicit sex. However, the 60s being a time of turmoil also was in response to government abuse of power, lying, and denial of rights. The American people fought for what was right in the form of the civil rights movement and the war protests. LBJ abused more power and rights than Nixon ever thought of.

I grew up in the state you now live in during the 50s and 60s, and saw first hand as a child, how one human can disrespect and hate another human being within a system of official law. Personally, I hope the white supremacists of the day are burning in hell. I lived the decade, I lived the war, so do not tell me the 60s did not make us a better nation. You were not there.

So, if one wants to pinpoint a start of the slide, try 1973, the beginning of abortion, giving official law backing to the sin of murder. Try this decade as we march towards a fifty state gay rights nation.t
Regardless, we had a reprieve from the slide in the 80s when President Reagan was in office.

I would suggest you study history, live it, experience it, and not mindlessly type posts.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The big downslide began with the removing of the Bible from the schools. Students were no longer taught the things of God.

That happened in the early 60's. I know. I was in school both before O'Haire won her case in court and after.

I stand by my post. I was there in the 60's and have been seeing the disolving of morals ever since the O'Haire case.

Maybe it is you who needs to "study history, live it, experience it, and not mindlessly type posts".

 

[saturneptune]

The big downslide began with the removing of the Bible from the schools. Students were no longer taught the things of God.

That happened in the early 60's. I know. I was in school both before O'Haire won her case in court and after.

I stand by my post. I was there in the 60's and have been seeing the disolving of morals ever since the O'Haire case.

Maybe it is you who needs to "study history, live it, experience it, and not mindlessly type posts".

You have not lived the 60s in reality, or that would not have been your point of origin. Most everyone on this board was in school then. So what?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I grew up watching Howdy Doody and Bozo the Clown. Don't tell me I didn't live in the 60's.

You obviously have no clue when I was born or what I did in my youth. So practice what you preach and stop mindless posts.

 

[Salty]

The big downslide began with the removing of the Bible from the schools. Students were no longer taught the things of God. ...

If Prayer and the Bible had remained in school, we may now be reading the Koran and praying to Allah.

America has changed - some for the good - some for the bad.

Our standard of living is much better. For us old foggies like Steadfast Fred and others - when we were kids and you said "net" we would think of fishermen, "cable" had something to do with electricity - to "nuke" would be the end of the world (rather to heat up old pizza); life expectancy has risen well over 20 years since 1950, many strides in education (in spite of some pitfalls) our missions programs are going into more countries, ect, ect...
Yes, America has changed some for the good, some - not so good.

 

[Oldtimer]

Not true. The decade of the 1920s, (before the last half of the twentieth century) was one of the most immoral decades in American history. The decades of the 30s and 40s, Americans grew up and faced the Depression and WW2 with great courage. You said the downward slide started after 1950. Actually the 50s had a population that still believed in morality and Christian values. We were at peace with very little rebellion.

Yes, the 60s in the latter half was rampant with drugs and illicit sex. However, the 60s being a time of turmoil also was in response to government abuse of power, lying, and denial of rights. The American people fought for what was right in the form of the civil rights movement and the war protests. LBJ abused more power and rights than Nixon ever thought of.

I grew up in the state you now live in during the 50s and 60s, and saw first hand as a child, how one human can disrespect and hate another human being within a system of official law. Personally, I hope the white supremacists of the day are burning in hell. I lived the decade, I lived the war, so do not tell me the 60s did not make us a better nation. You were not there.

So, if one wants to pinpoint a start of the slide, try 1973, the beginning of abortion, giving official law backing to the sin of murder. Try this decade as we march towards a fifty state gay rights nation.t
Regardless, we had a reprieve from the slide in the 80s when President Reagan was in office.

I would suggest you study history, live it, experience it, and not mindlessly type posts.

Saturneptune, I respectfully disagree with your post, in part.

You see, I was there, too. Graduated from HS in 1964. If one wants to pinpoint a date try 1962-1963 when prayer and religious Bible study were banned from schools. Add another one - 1965 Medicare implementation with culmination in ObamaCare in 2014(?). Add Woodstock 1969 and the far reaching impact it had on youth of the day. I saw it come about, especially with those only a few years younger than myself, at the time.

The KKK was a visible presence in my area, too. One thing often forgotten in the re-writting of history (at least where I lived) is white folk were also subject to receive a visit in the night. For example: If it became common knowledge that a man was beating his wife (regardless of race) the man may have gotten a taste of his own medicine. -- Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to defend the evil of white supremacists, especially as some are as all are portrayed today. Nor, the horror that some committed back then.

Growing up, I knew some of the local KKK members quite well. Know, too, that some of these men will be sitting at the feet of our Saviour along side of us. And, yes, some of them will burn in hell. However, I cannot hope that all will be there. That's too broad a paintbrush to apply. The INDIVIDUAL thief on the cross should be teaching us that.

Moving on...... you wrote:

and saw first hand as a child, how one human can disrespect and hate another human being within a system of official law.

I see, as an adult, the same thing regarding the "official law". Isn't that exactly what's happening today to Christians in this society? In this land, in this age, isn't it growing at a rapid pace? In 1987 it was declared that a cross in a jar of urine was art. "Official" approval of disrespect of the Christian faith. How much longer will Baptist preachers be allowed to stand in the pulpit and read from God's word without being slapped in handcuffs? To be charged with "hate" crimes because God's word doesn't "tolerate" what the world wants to "condone".

Righteousdude2 posed a question:

Has the nation/country changed, and is the change for the good or bad of our society, culture and America in general?

Two word answer: Yes & Bad.

* In the 1950's the whole family could watch any show on TV.

* In the 1950's a SS teacher would not go to the grocery store wearing a swim suit wrapped in a towel, tucked in at the top of the suit.

* In the 1950's Gay Pride was hidden in a closet. Unwed mothers went to visit an aunt for a few months or gave birth less than 9 months after her wedding.

* In the 1950's tube tops and daisy dukes were not common place. Nor for young girls to look like hookers in dress and makeup, whether in school or church.

* In the 1950's schools didn't "tolerate" disruptive students. A kid may not have learned anything, but he or she could sit in class and behave or face dicipline. Yes, I had to write 500 times that I would not .........

* In the 1950's gang signs were not spray painted everywhere. As they now are in our rural East coast community.

* In the 1950's shop lifting happened. There were no flash mobs stripping shops bare.

* In the 1950's, around here, "welfare" for most was the last resort when they could not provide for themselves. Work ethic was strong, even if it meant doing the most menial & backbreaking work to put bread on the table. Few felt "entitled" to feast off the efforts of others.

* In the 1950's everyone didn't get a ribbon just for showing up. Hard work and achievement were recognized. Scripture tells us that if we don't work, we don't eat. Yet, ribbons are given so that self esteem isn't damaged. Failure rewarded and the need for toil dismissed.

That's just a few examples of many changes, these old eyes have seen.

Yes, all have changed. Changed for the worst. IMO, will continue to do so until God either repeats history or completes the final chapter. Getting ever closer to turning the final page for the last time. Closing in on 2,000 years since His blood was shed for mankind. Considering the time spans mentioned throughout the scriptures, 2,000 years is a long time for God to hold his wrath at bay.

 

[Salty]

You obviously have no clue when I was born or what I did in my youth. So practice what you preach and stop mindless posts.

So why not tell us

 

[Dennis324]

Beware, this is long....

Gang, I think our culture is corrupted and this is eating away at our youth like cancer.

I'm often accused of being another Tipper Gore when I say this, but I believe the sorry state of the entertainment industry is largely responsible for the corrupted violent sexualized culture in America today. That...and apathetic parents.

When I speak of the media and our corrupted culture, I'm drawing a lot from my own experiences growing up and comparing that to news reports I have read over the years.

I read news articles in the past where there is a large number of incidents where kids got caught havng sex in a classroom while the teacher was out. Or teachers complaining about the way kids talk to them, telling them to go to hell or calling them a b-word, or stuff like that.

In the mid-70s when I was a teenager, we wouldnt DREAM of speaking to a teacher that way. I'm not saying this sort of stuff didnt occasionally happen. We've seen films like blackboard jungle and understand that school violence and disrespect did occur. But it was unheard of where I grew up.

Why? Why did this happen elsewhere and not at my school? Did I live in a Utopia? Not at all. There was nothing particularly special about my school. But the principal wasnt tyrranical...he was an ex basketball coach we called 'Smiley Joe" coz he grinned all the time and his pants were too short. Lol! And we liked him! And there were teachers we loathed too! Same as anywhere I guess. But I would never have called Mrs Banks a b-word...not to her face. I'd never have raised a hand to her and I dont know anyone in school who would.

Boy kids dont seem to think twice about doing it today though. A lot of kids are rude to their teachers now. And dont get me statistics about how school violence was worse way back when. I aint buying it. I'm sure any of you can do a quick search and find many instances to show this.

Why my focus on schools and kids? Because these children are learning this behaviour from somewhere. Do their parents teach them to be rude to the teachers? Maybe. More likely though, the rudeness, arrogance, disrespect and hatefulness comes from elsewhere.

The Numbers
- 2/3 of children in the United States have television sets in their bedrooms.
- Children watch about 28 hours of television a week.
- Children spend more time watching television than time spent in school.
- Children spend more time watching television than in any other activity except sleep.
- Television reaches children at a younger age and for more time than any other socializing institution except the family
- More and more homes have multiple TVs, meaning children have greater opportunity to view programs without parental consent or supervision.
- By age 18, a U.S. youth will have seen 16,000 simulated murders and 200,000 acts of violence. American Psychiatric Association
- In a national opinion poll conducted for TV Guide (8/2/03), 57% of TV viewers said they 'noticed an increase in offensive material on television lately.

Internet: The New Frontier

- More than 31% of children surveyed (ages 10 -17) report having seen a pornographic site on the Internet.
50% of teens (aged 3-18) frfequently communicate online with someone they've never met in person
- 37% have received a link to sexually explicit content

So imo, maybe, just maybe Tipper Gore had a point. Tipper was motivated to activism because she heard her then 11-year-old daughter playing "Darling Nikki" by Prince. If you've heard this song...it has some highly questionable lyrics (though sadly tame by todays comparison).

And I'm not trying to hold Tipper up to be all knowing and right on everything. Her group made some mistakes I think. But basically I think she had a good point.

Why do we so often blame parents when kids do bad things? Because parents are supposed to teach our kids how to behave and be productive good people. What happens when the parents arent there to teach the kids? Kids will get it somewhere else. Using the above stats, you can see that most kids get most of their info from the media.

Many kids and teens grew up watching MTV. I believe MTV airs shows which depict excessive sexual, profane, and violent content. Maybe once a long time ago it wasnt so bad, but all that has changed.

Family Guy is a popular tv show aired during prime time on broadcast tv. The Federal Communications Commission has received multiple petitions requesting that the show be blocked from broadcasting on indecency grounds. Entertainment Weekly's Ken Tucker and the PTC have both accused the show of portraying religion negatively, and of being racist. And let me tell you...it is. Of course Seth McFarland is a Militant athiest. Meaning he goes out of his way to take shots at and ridicule faith or morality. Of course he tries to hide behind that tired old mantra... its just a cartoon show. Yeah.

But its more than just programs like this. Even sitcoms aired during prime time have problems. Take the show 2 broke girls. Comes on at 9 PM eastern on CBS. This series prides itself on being “edgy.” There are constant sexual references, including breast and vagina references, orgasm jokes, allusions to masturbation, and kinky sex between the cook, Oleg, and the girls’ neighbor, Sophie. Foul language used in the program includes: “freaking,” “@ss,” “damn,” “whore,” “ho,” “b*tch,” “skank,” and “p*ss.”

And we wonder why kids will say this to one another or to their teachers? Why boys walk around with their pants around their knees and girls act and dress like sluts and have no respect for themselves? If they dont respect themselves, will they respect anyone else? And parents, who are overworked, exhausted and just plain beat when they come home...do they have time to ensure the kids are watching something more appropriate? Or do they just check out?

Speaking of parents...a long time ago, back before the early 60s...maybe the 50s and before, mom stayed at home. She raised the kids. Dad's job was to go out and work, pay the bills, make sure they had food and shelter. Then women started working. Some because of women's lib. Most because of the economy. Women HAVE to work now. Mom and dad both have to work in most cases. Sometimes 2 and 3 jobs. So now who has the time or energy to raise the kids now?

So...with this happening, who's babysitting the kids? Many children come home before the parent gets off work. And they are glued to tv. Or the internet. With no parental oversite. How in the world is a parent gonna change the channel (as much of hollywood would suggest) if mom and dad are at work?

Ever hear the phrase 'Garbage in-garbage out'? It is used primarily to call attention to the fact that computers will unquestioningly process the most nonsensical of input data ("garbage in") and produce nonsensical output ("garbage out").

Well this works in life too. If you surround yourself with garbage, smut, violent entertainment, it will affect your values and judgement. This is Psych 101 folks.

This is why I have said that since mom and dad cant change the channel, since they cant control what their kid is watching, I feel that the only alternative if for govt to do it. Because these children grow up fast. And they vote. And they raise children of their own...likely to be kids who dont care if their classmate is picked on or beaten up. Maybe a few become so desensitized and detached and burdened with anger issues that they steal mom's guns and go shoot up a school.

And that...my friends, is the real problem.

 

[PeterM]

Both the country and the church have changed... it is inevitable.

I continue to be very uncomfortable that many in baptist life still link the USA as a nation to the church. The church is a separate entity and the USA will be obliterated with all others in the end. I am a citizen of God's nation and my allegiance is there.

 

[saturneptune]

Saturneptune, I respectfully disagree with your post, in part.

You see, I was there, too. Graduated from HS in 1964. If one wants to pinpoint a date try 1962-1963 when prayer and religious Bible study were banned from schools. Add another one - 1965 Medicare implementation with culmination in ObamaCare in 2014(?). Add Woodstock 1969 and the far reaching impact it had on youth of the day. I saw it come about, especially with those only a few years younger than myself, at the time.

The KKK was a visible presence in my area, too. One thing often forgotten in the re-writting of history (at least where I lived) is white folk were also subject to receive a visit in the night. For example: If it became common knowledge that a man was beating his wife (regardless of race) the man may have gotten a taste of his own medicine. -- Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to defend the evil of white supremacists, especially as some are as all are portrayed today. Nor, the horror that some committed back then.

Growing up, I knew some of the local KKK members quite well. Know, too, that some of these men will be sitting at the feet of our Saviour along side of us. And, yes, some of them will burn in hell. However, I cannot hope that all will be there. That's too broad a paintbrush to apply. The INDIVIDUAL thief on the cross should be teaching us that.

Moving on...... you wrote:


I see, as an adult, the same thing regarding the "official law". Isn't that exactly what's happening today to Christians in this society? In this land, in this age, isn't it growing at a rapid pace? In 1987 it was declared that a cross in a jar of urine was art. "Official" approval of disrespect of the Christian faith. How much longer will Baptist preachers be allowed to stand in the pulpit and read from God's word without being slapped in handcuffs? To be charged with "hate" crimes because God's word doesn't "tolerate" what the world wants to "condone".

Righteousdude2 posed a question:


Two word answer: Yes & Bad.

* In the 1950's the whole family could watch any show on TV.

* In the 1950's a SS teacher would not go to the grocery store wearing a swim suit wrapped in a towel, tucked in at the top of the suit.

* In the 1950's Gay Pride was hidden in a closet. Unwed mothers went to visit an aunt for a few months or gave birth less than 9 months after her wedding.

* In the 1950's tube tops and daisy dukes were not common place. Nor for young girls to look like hookers in dress and makeup, whether in school or church.

* In the 1950's schools didn't "tolerate" disruptive students. A kid may not have learned anything, but he or she could sit in class and behave or face dicipline. Yes, I had to write 500 times that I would not .........

* In the 1950's gang signs were not spray painted everywhere. As they now are in our rural East coast community.

* In the 1950's shop lifting happened. There were no flash mobs stripping shops bare.

* In the 1950's, around here, "welfare" for most was the last resort when they could not provide for themselves. Work ethic was strong, even if it meant doing the most menial & backbreaking work to put bread on the table. Few felt "entitled" to feast off the efforts of others.

* In the 1950's everyone didn't get a ribbon just for showing up. Hard work and achievement were recognized. Scripture tells us that if we don't work, we don't eat. Yet, ribbons are given so that self esteem isn't damaged. Failure rewarded and the need for toil dismissed.

That's just a few examples of many changes, these old eyes have seen.

Yes, all have changed. Changed for the worst. IMO, will continue to do so until God either repeats history or completes the final chapter. Getting ever closer to turning the final page for the last time. Closing in on 2,000 years since His blood was shed for mankind. Considering the time spans mentioned throughout the scriptures, 2,000 years is a long time for God to hold his wrath at bay.

It seems to me we agree, and our differing opinion focuses on one decade, the 60s. I can now pinpoint your age, and you are a few years older. One of the major differences is a ten year difference when the slide began. Your position is 1963, when prayer left the schools, and I contend 1973 when abortion was legalized. This is an honest difference of opinion, and I also respect your posts.

Now, I am not defending our generations actions during the 60s, the free sex, drugs, Woodstock, hippie culture, and disrespect of authority in general. However, we were kids. We were not in charge, the generation (WW2 and below) were the policy makers. They decided to take God out of the schools. They were the ones running the state governments that treated human beings as second class citizens. They were the ones that got involved in the Vietnam war. Their generation produced the likes of LBJ, Billy Sol Estes, and Robert McNamera. On the positive side, IMO the Civil Rights movement put an end to the nonsense of separation and being treated as a different class of people under the Constitution. Remember, the generation that was in charge is the same one you just praised in the 50s. The Vietnam War was a sham built on a lie of the Tonkin Gulf Resolution. Fifty eight thousand died because of the leadership of Lyndon Johnson. So at the start of the slide, lets put the blame where it belongs.

So, why would I say that 1973 is the start of the real slide? If the start was 1963, it was a slow deterioration. You see, while taking God out of the schools is bad, our nation legalizing murder of the innocent is rubbing God's nose in sin. The 1963 incident was an act of disrespect. And today, we are on steady march towards gay marriage being legalized in all fifty states. These two events, abortion and gay rights being the law of the land, is, IMO, the beginning of the end.

Despite the turmoil of the 60s, the average family pretty much was intact like the 50s.

 

[nodak]

Agree with Dennis totally except that women do not have to work outside the home.

Sorry, but assuming a father in the home, many of my Mennonite friends manage just fine on one paycheck. So do many others willing to live at the standard of living one paycheck affords.

So if one is willing to give up the cable and the cell phones and the eating out, live basically a 1950's level of lifestyle, it is still very doable.

Just ask all the single parents living on one paycheck.

Flame away, but my personal belief is that when mama went to work the devil came in to keep house. And now we face the consequences.

edited to add: before you call me a male chauvinist pig, let me tell you I am female.

 

[just-want-peace]

Totally agree; satan is dead set on destroying the "family", and Mom working so we could have 2 (or more) cars, country club status, TV in every room etc etc etc was the start.

 

[saturneptune]

I grew up imitating Howdy Doody and Bozo the Clown. Don't tell me I didn't live in the 60's.