Has the Law of Moses Been Abolished?

[Darrell C]

Being born again = washed by the word.

This is true, but, it does not mean "keeping the Torah," and, it is not divorced from the Eternal Indwelling of God, it part of how we are born again, and the Word in view is the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel. That is what men must believe.

If you do not see the Gospel in this...


1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)


2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


...then I am truly very sorry for you.

Yes we are washed by the water of the Word, but specifically the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

We see that here as well...



Ephesians 5:25-26
King James Version (KJV)

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,


No Sacrifice of Christ, no Gospel; no Gospel, no cleansing; no cleansing...no Church.

You can't have one without the other.

You believe the Gospel and receive Christ:



John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)


15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


Obey the Gospel, Jason.

Then you will be obeying the Word of God, rather than part of the Word of God which He has made clear was only temporary:



Galatians 3:17-19
King James Version (KJV)

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


Now let's put this in terminology familiar to you:



17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, theTorah, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the Torah? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


The Seed has come, Jason...obey the Gospel.

Keep the Word of God, and stop trying to keep the Torah.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Being born again = washed by the word.

1Pe 1:23 having been born again – not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible – through the living Word of Elohim, which remains forever,

"Elohim" is not in the text.

Stop perverting the text and changing to suit your religion.

Place this statement in a balanced context which does not cherry pick the Word of God to lead men away from Christ.

We can't take Old Testament terms and insert them into texts at whim.

An analogous example might be trying to tell men they must still recognize the Tabernacle, despite the fact that the Temple of God is now the Church. God resides in us, for we now have His Spirit in Eternal Union.

It is curious your mind allows you to pervert the texts, but, only when it is convenient.

Try this on for size:


Galatians 2:21
King James Version (KJV)

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Your doctrine and practice demands that you read this...


I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the Torah, then Christ is dead in vain.


Why will you not submit to the Word of God and acknowledge righteousness cannot be, and never was...through keeping the Torah?

And this...



Galatians 3:10
King James Version (KJV)

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


...becomes...


For as many as are of the works of the Torah are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Torah to do them.


The Word of God is consistent...your doctrine is not.

You must, according to the Word of God...keep all of the Torah, not just the parts you think you can.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Again, the book you just wrote fails once again to differentiate between oral law and written law.

Just as heads up, my friend, but...

...I didn't write it. Holy men of God wrote it under Inspiration.

You should try reading what they have to say sometime.

Oral law is what is contended, never written.

Show me "Oral Law" in Scripture, and where God allowed men to keep part of the Law?

Nothing spoken by those professing to speak to God will conflict with what is written.

Just a simple Bible Principle, Jason.

. The message of scripture is the same through the whole book: Repent and return to the Father and follow Him (aka keep His commandments and instructions).

I would agree the message is the same, for the Gospel begins in Genesis 3:15 and is spoken of throughout the entire History of Fallen Man, in every Age.

However, as I keep trying to show you, understanding of the Mystery of the Gospel was not. This is why the disciples scattered when Christ was taken.

Another passage showing this:


Ephesians 3
King James Version (KJV)


1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


While the context deals with Gentile Inclusion, the fact remains we have several passages which make the same statement, and that if we try to make this exclusive to Gentile Inclusion we ignore that it was not revealed in other Ages.

It is revealed by the Spirit, and is the same Hidden Wisdom Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 2, which has also been presented to you...and ignored.

Yes, the Gospel of Christ is found in the Old Testament, and men under Law looked forward to the Redemption of Christ, but, they did not understand it beyond physical terms, just as you do not.

And just as you do, they wrested Scripture and perverted it to fit their religion. You are a Judaizer, Jason.

Any other message is of Satan.

I quite agree:


Galatians 1:6-9
King James Version (KJV)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


it was Judaizers Paul deals with in Galatians, so I highly recommend you give this Book some study, as it is relevant to your religion.

Hos_8:12 I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing.

You forgot to put in "Torah."


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Faith = Trusting in YHVH and obeying Him. Anyone of faith is an obedient follower of the Creator and His torah:

Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones,1 here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of Yeshua.​

Demons entice you to be lawless while the Christ calls us to follow Him (obedience).

Lawlessness is a false charge.

If you think rejecting the gospel according to Jason is lawlessness then you are in for a great shock if you do ever decide to read the Word of God.


God bless.

 

[Jason1]

Lawlessness is a false charge.

If you think rejecting the gospel according to Jason is lawlessness then you are in for a great shock if you do ever decide to read the Word of God.


God bless.

The Gospel: REPENT (keep torah) for the Kindom is at Hand!

Psa 119:9 How would a young man cleanse his path. To guard it according to Your word?
Psa 119:10 I have sought You with all my heart; Let me not stray from Your commands!
Psa 119:11 I have treasured up Your word in my heart, That I might not sin against You.
Psa 119:12 Blessed are You, O YHVH! Teach me Your laws.

 

[utilyan]

Well, I did show you the law out of the torah. That should be sufficient, but I'll add more:

Commands not to add:

Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it1, so as to guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim which I am commanding you.
Deu 12:32 “All the words I am commanding you, guard to do it – do not add to it nor take away from it.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Rev 22:18 For I witness to everyone hearing the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, Elohim shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book,
Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Elohim shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the set-apart city, which are written in this Book
​

Small sampling of the written word being the foundation:

Exo_24:12 And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there, while I give you tablets of stone, and the Torah and the command which I have written, to teach them.”
Deu_28:58 “If you do not guard to do all the Words of this Torah that are written in this book, to fear this esteemed and awesome Name, יהוה your Elohim,
Jos_1:8 “Do not let this Book of the Torah depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you guard to do according to all that is written in it. For then you shall make your way prosperous, and act wisely.
1Ki_2:3 “And guard the Charge of יהוה your Elohim: to walk in His ways, to guard His laws, His commands, His right-rulings, and His witnesses, as it is written in the Torah of Mosheh, so that you do wisely all that you do and wherever you turn;
Dan_9:13 “As it is written in the Torah of Mosheh, all this evil has come upon us, and we have not entreated the face of יהוה our Elohim, to turn back from our crookednesses, and to study Your truth.
Hos_8:12 “I have written for him numerous matters of My Torah – they were regarded as strange.
​

Messiah referencing the written and one vs oral:

Mat_4:4 But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.’ ”1 Footnote: 1Dt. 8:3.
Mat_4:7 יהושע said to him, “It has also been written, ‘You shall not try יהוה your Elohim.’
Mat_5:43 “You heard that it was said,1 ‘You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ Footnote: 1Hate your enemy was “said,” not “written.”
Luk_10:26 And He said to him, “What has been written in the Torah? How do you read it?”
Luk_21:22 “Because these are days of vengeance, to fill all that have been written.
​

More foundational truth:

Isa_8:16 Bind up the witness, seal the Torah among my taught ones.
Isa_8:20 To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
​

References to oral law and man's religion being wrong:

Mar_7:13 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such traditions you do.”
Mar_7:7 And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of men.
Isa 29:13 And יהוה says, “Because this people has drawn near with its mouth, and with its lips they have esteemed Me, and it has kept its heart far from Me, and their fear of Me has become a command of men that is taught1!
Mat 15:3 But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of Elohim1 because of your tradition?
Mat 23:4 “For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.
​

Paul's writings against oral law that the church interprets wrongly:
(works of the law is judaism oral law)

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world,1 and not according to Messiah.
Col 2:20 If, then, you died with Messiah from the elementary matters1 of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations: Footnote: 1See v. 8, and Gal. 4:3 & 9.
Col 2:21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle” –
Col 2:22 which are all to perish with use – according to the commands and teachings of men?​

Jason you have FAILED. You have BROKE YOUR OWN RULE.

You have failed to show that WRITTEN is superior to all other forms of communication.

That WRITTEN SCRIPTURE has higher authority IS your MAN MADE RULE. You have added to the word.

You showed me things that are written are important. They can even be VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

They can even be HOLY SMOKES VERY VERY IMPORTANTEEEESEEEMOOOO.

That does not equate to written superior to oral or tradition.

If you don't show a BIBLE written rule which flat out say written is greater then all other forms, Then you need to admit you are following a MADE UP RULE that has been ADDED.

That rule that is STUCK in your brain, IS FALSE, it is a LIE. Yeah it makes PERFECT sense to both of us, as how we would love things to work. But the fact is it has to SAY IT TO MAKE IT SO.


One time you argued with someone they said NO look what the bible says here. And then light bulb turned on your head and figured "it has to be in the bible to be the final rule in christian stuff".

Well your light bulb is WRONG. IT never says it. Jesus Christ did not practice with scripture being highest authority, Neither did the apostles or the hearer's of our Lord.

That is a brand new idea that came 1500s.

Show me the scripture! Show me where it says written is greater. Show us where it says it is the ONLY FINAL AUTHORITY.

Its not in there brother we've been saying it for 1000s of years.

 

[Darrell C]

The Gospel: REPENT (keep torah) for the Kindom is at Hand!

The Gospel according to Paul:


1 Corinthians 15
King James Version (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


The Gospel according to Jason:

The Gospel: REPENT (keep torah)

Paul's answer to Jason:


Galatians 2:16-21
King James Version (KJV)

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


To help you out, I will do the conversion your mind does when it looks upon the Word of God, wherein you change Scripture to suit your religion:


Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Torah, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the Torah: for by the works of the Torah shall no flesh be justified.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

For I through the Torah am dead to the Torah, that I might live unto God.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the Torah, then Christ is dead in vain.


Take the blinders off, Jason, and understand what the Gospel is. It is not...

The Gospel: REPENT (keep torah)

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Show me the scripture! Show me where it says written is greater.

Would the Word of the Lord count?


Matthew 4:4

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 4:6

And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 4:7

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 4:10

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 21:13

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 26:24

The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 26:31
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.


Luke 21:22
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Luke 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Luke 24:46
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:


John 12:16
These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.


Or the word of the Apostles?

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Acts 15:15
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations



The importance of what is written is seen throughout the Scriptures, and in the Lord's use He often counters the traditions and doctrines of men. If we included everything in both Old and New Testament that pointed to the Word of God as the authoritative record of God's will...we would need at least ten threads, eight pages long, to simply post the Scripture.

The Lord's rebuke of man's traditions is seen often enough that most should not have a hard time seeing that anything man says is true...must be verified by the Scripture.

Because if we get into trying to verify the Will of God through what man says, we end up with the same thing we have here with our friend Jason, which is a lawless attitude that not only discounts the authority of the Word of God, but changes what is actually said to suit their own religions.

Show me the scripture! Show me where it says written is greater.

There is no question Christ makes it clear numerous times that what is written is greater than what men say.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Here, Jason, are some extracts from your posts, which show your demeaning attitude towards God:

Who is Jesus? He is the word. So to be "baptised" we need to be washed by the word.

The word is torah (written scriptures).

In your mind, Jesus is just a "good example" given us to follow. "Jesus is the word, the word is Torah, hence, following Jesus equates to following (keeping the) Torah.

That is heresy.

Jesus is the WORD, Who gave us the Word, for He is the Creator.

And God the WORD only gave us the Torah to lay down basic principles until the Seed should come. He established the Covenant of Law with the People He created, Israel. That Covenant was not meant for the Church, the People of God in this Age.

Israel will come under the New Covenant when they turn to Christ in faith.

The torah and the word of Elohim are the same thing.

And I would agree with that. But that is not what you are teaching, you are teaching that the Torah and the WORD are the same thing:

Faith = Trusting in YHVH and obeying Him. Anyone of faith is an obedient follower of the Creator and His torah:

Faith is the result of the efforts of the Creator, it is not something men do and then they are right with God.

God enlightens the natural mind to the spiritual things of God, and they respond. This was true in the Old Testament, it is true in this Age. The Spirit of God ministers in the capacity of Comforter, effecting conviction by which men can repent. Your gospel teaches men must repent to, so to speak, get God's attention. Nothing could be further from the truth, for just as Israel is blind to the truth of the Gospel, even so natural men are blind to the truth.

We love God because He first loved us, Jason. Not, as your doctrine teaches, that we must first love Him (as evidenced by "keeping the Torah") so that we can be saved.

Demons entice you to be lawless while the Christ calls us to follow Him (obedience).

Your own lawlessness is evident to most on this forum, Jason. You have zero lack of regard for the Word of God. If you did, you would give attention to the passages shown you.

Here you equate following Christ with obedience:

Demons entice you to be lawless while the Christ calls us to follow Him (obedience).

It is true, Christ calls us unto obedience, but, how He calls us is the part of salvation in Christ you are missing, and converting Christ to a figurehead of someone Who keeps the Law is heresy, because...

...Christ is the Only One Who ever could or ever did, or ever will...

...keep the Law.

Don't you understand that? Don't you understand that Christ came and died in our stead because the Law could only find us guilty, and worthy of death?

The obedience demanded of men is obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ:


Hebrews 1:1-2
King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


What you teach is "God has not spoken unto us by His Son, He is still...

...speaking to us through the Law."

And that is one of the most basic elements of Hebrews, to exhort Hebrews...to progress from the Law, and to go on unto perfection/completion, which he defines as not the First (Basic) Principles of the Word of God (the Hebrew Scriptures, which includes the Law/Torah, Prophets, and Psalms (which are also spoken of collectively as the Law/Word of God)), but the more complete knowledge of the Doctrine of Christ.

The Gospel: REPENT (keep torah) for the Kindom is at Hand!

John baptized unto repentance, but Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost.

Repentance is, as faith, a result of the efforts of God. Repentance is a result of the Convicting Ministry of the Comforter. These are not results of man's efforts, because the natural man does not seek after God, he seeks after gods. And it doesn't matter if the gods of men are singular (as yours is), for even Muslims believe there is one god, just as the demons do.

The cult you have aligned yourself with has more in common with Muslims than it has with Israel, because even of Israel there were men and women who had faith in the Living God.

Unfortunately, you have rejected the God of the Bible and made Him to be a set of rules:

Who is Jesus? He is the word.

The word is torah (written scriptures).

Those who cannot even distinguish between the WORD and the Word reject Christ.

Until you leave the Word as it is written, and discontinue the mental gymnastics you go through when you look upon the Word, you will never know what it is saying.


Titus 2:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


Isaiah 49:26
King James Version (KJV)

26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.


A return to Jewish roots is not something I have a problem with, if one is Jewish. There is nothing in the New Testament that states a Jew must shed his heritage, and in fact I believe that in the Kingdom that is coming Israel will function as they were meant to before they clamored for a king from among men. But, neither is there anything which encourages Gentiles to live as Jews, and in fact we have numerous passages that teach the foolishness of this.

You need to come to understand the WORD of God, Jason, then you will understand the Word of God, and then you will be able to be obedient to the WORD and Word of God.


God bless.

 

[Jason1]

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. That is a very antinomian churchified response of wrongness.

Marcion the heretic would be proud of you. Do you know the definition of sin found in the NT?

 

[utilyan]

Would the Word of the Lord count?


Matthew 4:4

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 4:6

And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 4:7

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 4:10

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 21:13

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 26:24

The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 26:31
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.


Luke 21:22
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Luke 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Luke 24:46
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:


John 12:16
These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.


Or the word of the Apostles?

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Acts 15:15
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations



The importance of what is written is seen throughout the Scriptures, and in the Lord's use He often counters the traditions and doctrines of men. If we included everything in both Old and New Testament that pointed to the Word of God as the authoritative record of God's will...we would need at least ten threads, eight pages long, to simply post the Scripture.

The Lord's rebuke of man's traditions is seen often enough that most should not have a hard time seeing that anything man says is true...must be verified by the Scripture.

Because if we get into trying to verify the Will of God through what man says, we end up with the same thing we have here with our friend Jason, which is a lawless attitude that not only discounts the authority of the Word of God, but changes what is actually said to suit their own religions.





There is no question Christ makes it clear numerous times that what is written is greater than what men say.


God bless.

You found NO SCRIPTURE.

You did the same thing Jason did. Sincerely, English your primary language?

None of those things say what is written is greater.


You showed me things that are written are important. They can even be VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

They can even be HOLY SMOKES VERY VERY IMPORTANTEEEESEEEMOOOO.


You did not show that written word is superior to other forms of communication.


If God almighty sent you a smoke signal commanding you to do A after reading in scripture do B, what are you going to do?

God is the highest authority, The means he communicates his will is HIS PREROGATIVE.

If the Law says even written you need to be put to death for a particular sin, God says not to on account of mercy, Who do we listen to?

We listen to God, the written can take a hike.



You have a made up rule. That is not spelled out in scripture.



We already asked JAMES WHITE, Did Jesus practice SOLA SCRIPTURA? he said NO, APOSTLES? NO, HEARERS OF OUR LORD, NO.

Your top dogs say NO.

But they keep folks stupid on it.


Look this video go to clock 3:14 They try to hide and distort truth.

 

[Darrell C]

You found NO SCRIPTURE.

You did the same thing Jason did. Sincerely, English your primary language?

None of those things say what is written is greater.

Plenty of Scripture provided to you.

Let's look at the first:

Matthew 4:4

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 4:6

And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 4:7

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Matthew 4:10

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

It is Scripture that Christ appeals to in response to Satan. Scripture is greater than the devising of Satan, and that extends to men.

Now let me ask you, what exactly is Christ referring to when He speaks of "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God? Where would men in that day have found the Word of God? The primary source is Scripture.

Matthew 21:13

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Here we have something that is relevant to those who give the traditions and doctrines of men more importance: What is written...

...is greater than what men have said.

Now you can rationalize that the Catholic Church isn't like the men in view here, but, that doesn't change the fact that Christ points them to what is written.

A few more examples:

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.


Deuteronomy 12:32
King James Version (KJV)

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.



The only ones that can contribute to the Word of God are those appointed by God. And while you might think you have justification for thinking the Pope, or the Church (the Body) can add to the Word I would remind you...so do a lot of other groups.

And that God created a record of what He has said is simply a basic Bible Principle. When the "popes and prophets" of any group come into conflict with what has already been stated, then we can try those spirits and see them for what they are...false spokesman for God.


Another example:

Daniel 10:20-21

King James Version (KJV)

20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


Whether one views this as the Son of God, or an Angel, it is still the Scripture that is appealed to. It is Scripture that Daniel gains understanding of the years of judgment for his people.

Do a study on Scripture, Utilyan:

Matthew 21:42

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

And I am deleting the other references due to being over length, so this will have to serve as an example.


What do you think Paul is speaking about here...

Romans 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


...?

What do you think the Writer is speaking about here...



Hebrews 5:10-14
King James Version (KJV)

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


...?

He points to the First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ...in the Scriptures.

That those who minister must conform to the Scriptures is clear:


1 Peter 4:11
King James Version (KJV)

11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


1 Corinthians 15:3-4
King James Version (KJV)

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Look, you are of the belief that men can add to the Word of God and be in conflict with it, I get that.

But you cannot deny that the Scriptures are the only sure way among men to know if a man is speaking for God or not. I am sorry you do not see this in Scripture.

We already asked JAMES WHITE, Did Jesus practice SOLA SCRIPTURA? he said NO, APOSTLES? NO, HEARERS OF OUR LORD, NO.

Your top dogs say NO.

Where did you get the idea James White is the my "top dog?" Don't you understand that it is the Word of God that is the only authority I recognize?

I am not saying that men cannot expound upon Scripture, or that traditions men have that are not specifically stated in Scripture are necessarily wrong. But what we are talking about is Authority and the Word of God has always been the Authority that the men we know are ordained to speak for God appeal to.

So what do you offer me, Utilyan, what a man, James White has to say and a video? The burden is on you to show Scripture that validates men being able to add or take away from the Word of God, that is...the Written Word. And when we see a Pope getting into bed with Muslims, we see a conflict with light trying to interact with darkness.


God bless.

 

[utilyan]

Plenty of Scripture provided to you.

Let's look at the first:






It is Scripture that Christ appeals to in response to Satan. Scripture is greater than the devising of Satan, and that extends to men.

Now let me ask you, what exactly is Christ referring to when He speaks of "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God? Where would men in that day have found the Word of God? The primary source is Scripture.




Here we have something that is relevant to those who give the traditions and doctrines of men more importance: What is written...

...is greater than what men have said.

Now you can rationalize that the Catholic Church isn't like the men in view here, but, that doesn't change the fact that Christ points them to what is written.

A few more examples:

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.


Deuteronomy 12:32
King James Version (KJV)

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.



The only ones that can contribute to the Word of God are those appointed by God. And while you might think you have justification for thinking the Pope, or the Church (the Body) can add to the Word I would remind you...so do a lot of other groups.

And that God created a record of what He has said is simply a basic Bible Principle. When the "popes and prophets" of any group come into conflict with what has already been stated, then we can try those spirits and see them for what they are...false spokesman for God.


Another example:

Daniel 10:20-21

King James Version (KJV)

20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


Whether one views this as the Son of God, or an Angel, it is still the Scripture that is appealed to. It is Scripture that Daniel gains understanding of the years of judgment for his people.

Do a study on Scripture, Utilyan:

Matthew 21:42

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

And I am deleting the other references due to being over length, so this will have to serve as an example.


What do you think Paul is speaking about here...

Romans 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


...?

What do you think the Writer is speaking about here...



Hebrews 5:10-14
King James Version (KJV)

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


...?

He points to the First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ...in the Scriptures.

That those who minister must conform to the Scriptures is clear:


1 Peter 4:11
King James Version (KJV)

11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


1 Corinthians 15:3-4
King James Version (KJV)

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Look, you are of the belief that men can add to the Word of God and be in conflict with it, I get that.

But you cannot deny that the Scriptures are the only sure way among men to know if a man is speaking for God or not. I am sorry you do not see this in Scripture.




Where did you get the idea James White is the my "top dog?" Don't you understand that it is the Word of God that is the only authority I recognize?

I am not saying that men cannot expound upon Scripture, or that traditions men have that are not specifically stated in Scripture are necessarily wrong. But what we are talking about is Authority and the Word of God has always been the Authority that the men we know are ordained to speak for God appeal to.

So what do you offer me, Utilyan, what a man, James White has to say and a video? The burden is on you to show Scripture that validates men being able to add or take away from the Word of God, that is...the Written Word. And when we see a Pope getting into bed with Muslims, we see a conflict with light trying to interact with darkness.


God bless.

"Now let me ask you, what exactly is Christ referring to when He speaks of "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God? Where would men in that day have found the Word of God? The primary source is Scripture."


No it would have been other people. To own a bible your looking at maybe 3 years of the money you make.

In fact without other people you can't even interpret words themselves. If I hand your kid a Chinese bible (assuming he doesn't know Chinese) He ain't gonna do nothing with it.

It does not work alone at all.

In fact you can't even find a bible unless you have a holy spirit inspired table of contents.


There is nothing to be identified as what is the bible from outside the tradition of WHAT YOU ARE TOLD is the bible.

The bible did not fall out the sky into your lap, Someone put the books in your hands.


If everyone believed that scripture was the sole rule of faith there would countless more denominations with various meanings to the same written verse.

Sure enough there is someone out there who hates his family because scripture says so.

 

[Jason1]

Isa 40:6 The voice said, “Cry out!” and he said, “What do I cry?” “All flesh is grass, and all its loveliness is like the flower of the field.
Isa 40:7 “Grass shall wither, the flower shall fade, when the Spirit of יהוה has blown on it! Truly the people is grass!
Isa 40:8 “Grass shall wither, the flower shall fade, but the Word of our Elohim stands forever.

1 Peter quotes these verses in his admonition multiple times for us to obey the Father. This can only refer to His torah.

 

[Smiley]

The Torah is the Word of God. That means it is eternal and can not be abolished. Our response to it has changed over the millennia, because so many of it's requirements are not possible without a Temple or a Theocracratic government.

The requirement of a sacrifice for sin is found only in the Torah, so if it were abolished there would be no need of the cross. However, the administration of the Torah has been given to an eternal High Priest and we have a Temple not made with human hands now.

Really, almost all of the Newer Covenant scriptures are commentary on what came before in the Law, The Prophets, and the Writings. (Tenach aka Old Testament)

Where the Newer Covenant says "all scripture is profitable and useful for instruction in righteousness" there was ONLY the Tenach (OT) in existence. You either respect the whole word or you have invented your own religion.

Which is actually quite commonplace these days.

 

[Smiley]

Oh, absolutely correct. His blood washes your sins totally away when you accept His sacrifice and return back to the covenant. Blank slate. Now what happens if you continue in sin? Is that slate still clean or is something expected of you? Are you eternally clean if you murder 100 people? What if you steal from 10 people in a big way? What if you break the sabbath on purpose for the rest of your life? Are you perfectly sinless always?

What will we be judged by on judgment day?

So he saves the pagan lost in sin, but the saint who has backslidden, or is simply ignorant through what is taught by their particular denomination, is going to the hot place?

Bro....you know not what Spirit you are of.

 

[Jason1]

So he saves the pagan lost in sin, but the saint who has backslidden, or is simply ignorant through what is taught by their particular denomination, is going to the hot place?

Bro....you know not what Spirit you are of.

If you read closer, I am indicating willful sins. I was also responding to marcionsota's greasy grace doctrine if i remember right.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins,
Heb 10:27 but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents.​