Have I crossed the line in Dispensationalism?

[evangelist6589]

This is what I wonder. My view on alcohol is not exactly a common one, as many in the Disp camp are into Teetotalism. It seems the best arguments for alcoholic beverages comes from Reformed pens. But this is not saying all Dispensationalists are against alcohol.

Second my view on the Law and the Gospel is not a common one among Dispensationalist. Books like this one seem to be very Covenant theology based and using the 10 Commandments in evangelism is not a common view among Dispensationalists as most believe in the Dispensation of Grace and therefore the use of the LAW is not appropriate. Also open air preaching was for another Dispensation. No I am not saying that all Dispensationalists are against the Way of the Master, nor am I saying that all Reformed accept WOTM, or using the LAW in evangelism, but in general its more accepted in Reformed circles.

The classical view is:

Innocence (Genesis 1 -3) - Adam and Eve before they sinned
Conscience (Genesis 3-8) - First sin to the flood
Civil Government (Genesis 9-11) - After the flood, government
Promise (Genesis 12-Ex. 19) - Abraham to Moses, the Law is given
Law (Exodus 20 - Acts 2:4) - Moses to the cross
Grace (Acts 2:4 - Revelation 20:3) - Cross to the millennial kingdom
Millennial Kingdom (Rev. 20:4-6) – The rule of Christ on earth in the millennial kingdom

So I have to wonder where I stand. Perhaps I do not fit into either camp.

 

[Revmitchell]

None of those things have anything to do with dispensationalism.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Relax, young feller.

Truthfully, I really don't consider myself to be of either camp. Then again, I'm not a Calvinist or Arminianist, either.

I shudder at times listening to various 'factions' in the Church (at large). People come up with various ideas to explain what is going on and then squabble over which model is correct and why everyone else is going to Hell.

* Do you have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ? (Whether you were predestined for such or simply heard and responded because it seemed like a good idea, I don't care.)

* Do you rely on Jesus Christ as the Creator of the Universe and the Sustainer of life and your eternal soul?

* Do you pay attention to the promptings of the Holy Spirit - verified by the authenticity of Biblical teaching - and follow to the best of your ability and leave the rest to God?

If so, you're in. God will insure you find out everything else He decides you need to know. Relax, but pay attention.

When you arrive at the Gates of Heaven, God will not ask if you were a Calvinist, Arminian, Armenian, Dispensationalist, Covenantist, or speak in tongues. You will be asked if you are a member of the Church of Christ Meets Here. He keeps them in a separate area until He can break it to them gently about the rest of us being there.

 

[Baptist Believer]

You would do well not to be a Dispensationalist (salvation has always been by grace, and Adam and Eve relied on God's grace even in the age of "Innocence"), nor overly tied to Reformed theology, nor use "The Way of the Master"(sic).

From what I know of the "Way of the Master"(sic) approach (the way they use the Ten Commandments), I don't see many (if any) examples of Jesus using that method, nor His disciples - even Paul.

Jesus preached the Kingdom of God and so did His followers in the early church, not the so-called "Way of the Master."

 

[Baptist Believer]

I shudder at times listening to various 'factions' in the Church (at large). People come up with various ideas to explain what is going on and then squabble over which model is correct and why everyone else is going to Hell.

* Do you have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ? (Whether you were predestined for such or simply heard and responded because it seemed like a good idea, I don't care.)

* Do you rely on Jesus Christ as the Creator of the Universe and the Sustainer of life and your eternal soul?

* Do you pay attention to the promptings of the Holy Spirit - verified by the authenticity of Biblical teaching - and follow to the best of your ability and leave the rest to God?

If so, you're in. God will insure you find out everything else He decides you need to know. Relax, but pay attention.[/SIZE]

:thumbsup:

 

[go2church]

What does dispensationalism have to with having a drink? Hint....nothing

 

[saturneptune]

There has always been a tendency in man made theology paradigms to link various doctrines together like a train. One of the biggest ones I notice on this board is to link Reformed doctrines with covenant doctrines, and Free Will doctrines with dispy doctrine. It may be true to a degree, but there are famous theologians, dead and alive, that are Reformed and dispys, and Free Will and covenant. While I do not agree with this linking in general, it makes more sense that linking Reformed with the subjects listed in this thread.

Does it go something like this. Reformed is more tolerant of drinking because one must drink a fifth of whiskey before they can start believing the five points? Also, they stand firm against gambling because nothing is left to chance?

Free Will on the other hand would be against drinking a fifth of whiskey, because one could not decide much of anything after drinking that.

 

[evangelist6589]

Truthfully, I really don't consider myself to be of either camp. Then again, I'm not a Calvinist or Arminianist, either.

I shudder at times listening to various 'factions' in the Church (at large). People come up with various ideas to explain what is going on and then squabble over which model is correct and why everyone else is going to Hell.

* Do you have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ? (Whether you were predestined for such or simply heard and responded because it seemed like a good idea, I don't care.)

* Do you rely on Jesus Christ as the Creator of the Universe and the Sustainer of life and your eternal soul?

* Do you pay attention to the promptings of the Holy Spirit - verified by the authenticity of Biblical teaching - and follow to the best of your ability and leave the rest to God?

If so, you're in. God will insure you find out everything else He decides you need to know. Relax, but pay attention.

When you arrive at the Gates of Heaven, God will not ask if you were a Calvinist, Arminian, Armenian, Dispensationalist, Covenantist, or speak in tongues. You will be asked if you are a member of the Church of Christ Meets Here. He keeps them in a separate area until He can break it to them gently about the rest of us being there.

Archie,

Appreciate the tone but I am not questioning my salvation. This is a debate on theology and a debate forum. I am aware that both camps will be in Heaven, however I am debating the camp my positions stand in. If this was all for nothing, there would not be so many books written on these topics.

 

[evangelist6589]

You would do well not to be a Dispensationalist (salvation has always been by grace, and Adam and Eve relied on God's grace even in the age of "Innocence"), nor overly tied to Reformed theology, nor use "The Way of the Master"(sic).

From what I know of the "Way of the Master"(sic) approach (the way they use the Ten Commandments), I don't see many (if any) examples of Jesus using that method, nor His disciples - even Paul.

Jesus preached the Kingdom of God and so did His followers in the early church, not the so-called "Way of the Master."

This post above does nothing but show your ignorance. However I will not get OT as this is not a thread on the WOTM so I will comment no more. Please read his books before you make your replies.

 

[Revmitchell]

This post above does nothing but show your ignorance. However I will not get OT as this is not a thread on the WOTM so I will comment no more. Please read his books before you make your replies.

I can assure you BB is well informed and well read and would not speak on something he knew nothing of.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Ah.

Archie,
Appreciate the tone but I am not questioning my salvation. This is a debate on theology and a debate forum. I am aware that both camps will be in Heaven, however I am debating the camp my positions stand in. If this was all for nothing, there would not be so many books written on these topics.

I'm glad you have no doubts about your salvation. Good.

My point is, these 'camps' are really quite meaningless in the long run. When I was a much younger man I felt much like the tone of your OP. I wasn't sure if I agreed with this group or that group and so on. It took a while of study and reading to finally understand God didn't care much about it.

There are some things He does care about and I know of no 'factions' involved. God wants us to live a proper life in accord with His instructions. So be in the Obedience camp. God wants us to spread His word. So be in the Witnessing and Missions camp. The Lord will return and I can tell you exactly when. When He gets good and ready. (Not before, not after; and no one is watching over his shoulder with a stop watch, warning Him He's running out of time.) So be in the Ready camp.

I really think of some of our modern distinctions in the same sense as those mentioned in Titus 3:3 "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the law, because they are useless and empty."

 

[evangelist6589]

I can assure you BB is well informed and well read and would not speak on something he knew nothing of.

Stop trying to hijack this thread. This is OT for this thread.

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm glad you have no doubts about your salvation. Good.

My point is, these 'camps' are really quite meaningless in the long run. When I was a much younger man I felt much like the tone of your OP. I wasn't sure if I agreed with this group or that group and so on. It took a while of study and reading to finally understand God didn't care much about it.

There are some things He does care about and I know of no 'factions' involved. God wants us to live a proper life in accord with His instructions. So be in the Obedience camp. God wants us to spread His word. So be in the Witnessing and Missions camp. The Lord will return and I can tell you exactly when. When He gets good and ready. (Not before, not after; and no one is watching over his shoulder with a stop watch, warning Him He's running out of time.) So be in the Ready camp.

I really think of some of our modern distinctions in the same sense as those mentioned in Titus 3:3 "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the law, because they are useless and empty."

Well for theological clarification its important to know where people stand. For example brother if I walked into a Weslyian church they could make your argument and they will say what you have said, but when I discover that 99% of the people in the church do not agree with the principles I have been taught, nor agree with Reformed theology, I would find myself in the wrong pool, and would quickly want to move to a more like minded fellowship. The same can be said of them. How many in that church would want to be in another fellowship where would feel comfortable? Probably very little if any. God has gifted people differently and people want to be in environments they fit in best.

 

[salzer mtn]

I'm glad you have no doubts about your salvation. Good.

My point is, these 'camps' are really quite meaningless in the long run. When I was a much younger man I felt much like the tone of your OP. I wasn't sure if I agreed with this group or that group and so on. It took a while of study and reading to finally understand God didn't care much about it.

There are some things He does care about and I know of no 'factions' involved. God wants us to live a proper life in accord with His instructions. So be in the Obedience camp. God wants us to spread His word. So be in the Witnessing and Missions camp. The Lord will return and I can tell you exactly when. When He gets good and ready. (Not before, not after; and no one is watching over his shoulder with a stop watch, warning Him He's running out of time.) So be in the Ready camp.

I really think of some of our modern distinctions in the same sense as those mentioned in Titus 3:3 "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the law, because they are useless and empty."

A man that want stand for nothing will fall for anything.

 

[OldRegular]

T

Does it go something like this. Reformed is more tolerant of drinking because one must drink a fifth of whiskey before they can start believing the five points? Also, they stand firm against gambling because nothing is left to chance?

Good thing there are not ten points or it would take two fifths!:thumbsup:

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

A man that want stand for nothing will fall for anything.

:applause: :applause:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

If this was all for nothing, there would not be so many books written on these topics.

What, you don't think some Christians see an opportunity to make a buck writing about things that don't really matter? I'm not confident that is the case at all.

 

[evangelist6589]

What, you don't think some Christians see an opportunity to make a buck writing about things that don't really matter? I'm not confident that is the case at all.

So you think every book was written just to make a buck?

 

[JonC]

There are some things He does care about and I know of no 'factions' involved. God wants us to live a proper life in accord with His instructions. So be in the Obedience camp. God wants us to spread His word. So be in the Witnessing and Missions camp. The Lord will return and I can tell you exactly when. When He gets good and ready. (Not before, not after; and no one is watching over his shoulder with a stop watch, warning Him He's running out of time.) So be in the Ready camp.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

So you think every book was written just to make a buck?

Yep. Otherwise, its a waste of time that could be put to more productive use. Some authors give their proceeds to charity, but that nonetheless means they expect their book to make money. Even the publishers of the various versions of the Bible expect to make a profit, or they wouldn't keep publishing it.