DHK,
Earlier, you disagreed with me when I said that there was a connection between faith and miracles. You wrote,
****But the truth is that faith is not important in miracles. **
Then you write,
**There never was any question that sometimes Jesus related healing to faith. Sometimes you read the statement "be it according to your faith."**
You seem to be flip-flopping here. I have been consistently arguing that there is a close connection in the scriptures between healing and miracles and faith.
****Sometimes you read the statement "be it according to your faith." Sometimes--not all the time. But those are isolated incidents used for our instruction. When you look at the numbers as a whole-great crowds healed--every one of them healed; there were more healed without having faith than there were that had faith. Likewise with miracles. There were more that were fed (5,000+), that were not believers, then were. Faith was not always a requirement.*****
Isolated incidents? Dozens of examples are just 'isolated incidents.' If we counted up all the miracles and healings in the Gospels, I wouldn't be surprised if more of them indicated that the recipient had faith than didn't. These examples are in there to teach us something.
Just think about it. When those people were following Jesus around and He 'healed them all'- don't you think those people had some faith that he could heal them? Why did all the sick people come to the door o the house where he was at if they didn't think he could heal them? Why did they come out to listen to Him if they didn't have some faith in Him? I am not saying they had saving faith. John speaks of people who 'believe' in Jesus who sure don't seem to have saving faith.
It is reasonable to assume that the times when Jesus healed the masses, that the inviduals who came to him in this situation often had some faith that Jesus could heal them. Sometimes, it was someone else's faith. The man sick with the palsy's friend had faith. Maybe the man was too sick to know what was going on. But maybe he did have faith, too, since Jesus forgave Him.
What did Jesus do when He was in an atmosphere of unbelief in Nazareth. The Bible says he didn't (and Mark says, could not) do many mighty miracles there because of there unbelief. In this atmosphere, He still was able to heal a few sick folk. Maybe they were healed.
I never said that everyone who got healed had to have faith personally. The centurian's servant was healed after the centurian displayed great faith. THe Syro-Phonecian woman's doaugther was healed in response to her faith.
John 14:12. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
***Search through history as you will. You will never find any person who did the kind of miracles that Christ did, never!**
Not all events that have occured are recorded in historical documents. Jesus clearly did miracles, and He said that He would believed would do the works that He did. From reading Paul, it would seem that some of the kinds of works Christ did are given to some to do, and some to another. So that may be one way of reading this. But clearly miracles are among the works of Christ. And look up the word for 'works' while you are at it and still if you hold to the same interpretation after doing a word study.
Casting out demons was a work of Christ. Do you believe that people can still cast out demons today, or do you think God took that power away from the church as well? Do Christians not need to cast out demons since they have the Bible, in your opinion?
**And no man ever will. They were unique miracles over nature, time, and space, that man could never accomplish--with or without God's help. They are unique only to God, for that was their purpose--to show the deity of Christ.**
Jesus walked on water. So did Peter, until his faith wavered. Peter's miracle didn't attest to Peter having deity.
Jesus' miracles bore witness of Him. But do you have any scripture that specifically states that His miracles bore witness to the doctrine of the deity of Christ? I believe in Christ's deity, but I don't know of scripture to back up your specific point.
The miracles the apostle did also bore witness to the truth about Christ, btw. So if a Christian does miracles, it isn't a challenge to Christ's uniqueness or His deity. We can see that from John 14:12.
On James 5, you wrote,
**Please note very carefully where the faith comes in. There is no faith mentioned on the part of the sick person. If the sick person does not get well it is one of two reasons:
1. Perhaps it is not God's will (Charismatics traditionally reject this reason)**
I suppose you could try to argue for this exception from other scripture. I don't see an exception for 'not God's will' in James 5.
I do see the possiblity that the sick not confessing his sin could hinder his sickness in the passage. Read the next verse about praying and confessing faults one to another.
**2. The fault then lies in the faith of the pastor, for it is the faith of the prayer of the pastor that has failed--not the sick person.
--The typical faith healer today is not only a fraud, he is a cruel fraud. He needlessly blames his victim when he doesn't get well for not having enough faith.**
I don't know that that is 'typical.' This is a stereotype you could get from a WOF preacher on TV, maybe.
A lot of people who mionister or try to minister divine healing, ('faith healer' is not usually a term used by these people to describe themselves) are not elders in the local church. The teaching of the Gospels, and Acts, about the connection between faith and healing still holds true. We cant' cancel out all those dozens of scripture by simply quoting a verse from James that requires faith on the part of the elders when they pray for the sick.
** The truth be told, it is the faith healer that doesn't have enough faith, according to the Scriptures--if he truly believes that the person should be healed. These people are frauds.**
The promise of James 5 is for elders. Btw, are you a preacher? Has anyone you prayed for not gotten healed? If you were a preacher, or even an elder of the church, and this happened, would you say that you weren't a fraud or that it was 'not God's will.'
Why do you say that 'faith healers' are frauds, instead of just concluding that the healing was 'not God's will'? Do those who disagree with you become frauds when their prayers aren't answered as they like, but it's just 'not God's will' when it happens to you? Some people who di this kind of ministry find that some people are healed, and others aren't. There are preachers who wronlgy promise that everyone be healed, or nerly go that far. Others don't do this.
