I agree. People are responsible for their own health and should make their own decisions.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Have/would you take the Covid vaccine? PT 2
- Thread starter percho
- Start date
They are not actually identical. The vaccinated deaths do not restrict deaths to complications of the vaccine while the COVID deaths exclude deaths when another primary cause is known (just listing "COVID" as a contributing factor is not counted as a COVID death).
As of today the number of people who died after taking the vaccine (died for any reason) is .0017%. This counts vaccines given to terminally ill patients, i.e., all post vaccine deaths.
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
Mortality had nothing to do with why the SARS1 vaccines did not progress beyond phase 1. Their funding dried up because SARS1 died out and demand was no longer there. These were the two vaccines that got that far.
A SARS DNA vaccine induces neutralizing antibody and cellular immune responses in healthy adults in a Phase I clinical trial - PubMed
Safety and immunogenicity from a phase I trial of inactivated severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus vaccine - PubMed
I addressed the medical and non medical reasons patients at low risk of dying from covid19 should still get the vaccine on this post. Obviously it is a person’s choice but if you value reputable sources of medical evidence and ignore the for profit online disinformation industry, the choice is overwhelmingly obvious.
Have/would you take the Covid vaccine? PT 2
The people who write journal articles, guidelines and compile data for quality information don’t have any financial incentive for the labourious work they do. It is their underappreciated job and they get paid the same whether people read it or not. On the other hand the disinformation industry is incentivized by social media and advertising to generate fear, clicks and unwitting evangelists by posting outrageous incorrect information that reinforces the preexisting incorrect beliefs of their target sheep.
Last edited:
That is not what he implied.
They should be free to hear the pros and the cons, everywhere. Has MSM posted any cons? Can a con be posted on Twitter and or Facebook which has basically taken the place of newspapers. That is where most under the age 60 receive their information.
Something is very, very wrong in the way this vaccine has been handled.
Or one could, have faith of, his creator and the manner in which his creator, created him.
Don't you love that word trust? I do.
Would you trust these guys,
A Trustworthy Vaccine? - Pfizer - Mirror Project Documentary Ep. 13 (bitchute.com)
5 min 52 sec
But if their vax kills mama, you try bringing them to court.
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
The same creator who gave us a brain to use for critical thinking and scientific reasoning like the reasoning and evidence gathering from reputable authoritative sources described in Acts of the Apostles 17:11.
I understand, I understand.
Gen 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
In australia, doctors, the government and drug companies do not enjoy that level of protection from indemnity. We can be sued for vaccine reactions. For the plaintiff to win the case they need to show negligence or fault in composition of the vaccine which will be hard to show if all parties were reasonable in their actions given what was known at the time.
Who pays compensation if a COVID19 vaccine has rare side effects
If you are saying that doctors are trained to be skeptical of information until quality evidence like scientific papers and guidelines written by panels of leaders in a field who have studied the evidence are written which we can then check references and supporting data for, then we are guilty as charged.
Last edited:
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
A whistleblower is someone who has evidence of wrongdoing in a organization who is placing their own career at risk to expose that wrongdoing. It is not someone who just complains about company policy. What sort of evidence did these whistleblowers have?
Private companies have the right to set work policies as they see fit. They are also able to discriminate on many things, including vaccination status especially if it pertains to their job and the safety of their clients.
Your suspicion of conspiracy does not make it so.
The goal is ending the pandemic. Until the vaccine came around the best tools we had were masks, distancing, travel restrictions, testing/tracing/isolating and good public health policy as countries like NewZealand, Australia, Taiwan and S. Korea modeled. Now that effective safe vaccines are around, they are the best tool we have to end the pandemic.
Two completely false statements that is not backed by any evidence.
Emergency FDA approval is in place for all the US vaccines. In australia Pfizer and AZ both have full formal TGA approval. We never needed emergency approval because our public health measures were so effective at controlling Covid19.
What was killing the elderly was covid19. If governments had good public health policy, they could prevent those deaths. Now with vaccination we can prevent even more deaths.
The choice is yours to love your neighbour keep them from getting sick and help the global economy recover or to believe the for profit online disinformation machine trying to play on your fears to get clicks.
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
This is the CDC policy for covid19 and death certificates, a legal document that doctors can get sued for if it misrepresents the truth. And they get no benefit for a patient dying of covid rather than something else. Maybe their hospital gets more federal funds but the doctor signing the death certificate would not see any of that. Which of you would risk your career so that a hospital accountant would be able to balance their budget?
He is burying lots of people who died of covid19, because lots of people died of covid19. It sounds like his competitors must be taking his business.
South Has High Rate Of Unreported COVID Deaths, Study Says
Last edited:
I agree. Politics is what was wrong. Most of the negativity was the DNC fighting "Trump vax".
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
Have you not heard about the AZ and J&J clotting risk? If you look at actual data instead of disinformation, you will see that this is the only con of the covid19 vaccines.
Once a large portion of the world is vaccinated the rest of the world not living in a disinformation echo chamber will be celebrating the amazing blessing from God of multiple safe effective vaccines in record time while those in the disinformation bubble will still be looking for cons that aren’t there.
Last edited:
Many deaths, perhaps 1 or more years from now may be a result of the vax. Kind of like when people are subjected to radiation from CT’s, mammograms, etc. & the doc gets the benefit of looking in on you, and you get to walk out the door without obvious detriment......that will come later. One CT is equal to 50 chest x-rays, but they don’t think twice about ordering them for you, plus they are very lucrative. The last & only one I’ve had was $3,800. It took 5 minutes. I told the doc what long ago injury had been seen on an x-ray, & said I didn’t need a CT to tell me that, but instead received a registered letter telling me it was HIGHLY doubtful that I was correct, & my life was at stake (plus they already received clearance from insurance for the CT). The result was exactly what I said it was, but there was only some stupid reply telling me any pain I was having (I wasn’t) was a result of the trauma.....(whose chart are they even looking at?)
In response to GD, it’s just strange that someone in the medical field......during a pandemic......while their own country seems to be devolving into a police state........has so much time on their hands to post nonstop ‘advice’ to us on a small American Baptist board when they are not even Baptist........what’s the draw? Big-fish-little-pond syndrome? Or just overjoyed that the left has gained control & you want them to have even more? Comply, comply, comply, which evolves to submit, submit, submit. A progressive lot, to be sure. Hahaha.
In response to GD, it’s just strange that someone in the medical field......during a pandemic......while their own country seems to be devolving into a police state........has so much time on their hands to post nonstop ‘advice’ to us on a small American Baptist board when they are not even Baptist........what’s the draw? Big-fish-little-pond syndrome? Or just overjoyed that the left has gained control & you want them to have even more? Comply, comply, comply, which evolves to submit, submit, submit. A progressive lot, to be sure. Hahaha.
Here's another interesting question -
If a business (like Wal-Mart, for example) allows no masks only for vaccinated people would unvaccinated people be wrong to violate the policies of the owners and go in without a mask? Would it be dishonest (since they use the "honor system")?
If a business (like Wal-Mart, for example) allows no masks only for vaccinated people would unvaccinated people be wrong to violate the policies of the owners and go in without a mask? Would it be dishonest (since they use the "honor system")?
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
If you knew anything about medications, the human body and pharmacology, you would know this was next to impossible.
You can have medication effects that are delayed but you are talking about weeks, not years. The reason is the human body is very good at eliminating foreign things via your immune system, your kidneys and your liver. For most drugs, the problem is getting it to stay in the body. That is why we prescribe medications that you need to take every day or even multiple times a day. The covid19 vaccines are all eliminated from the body within days.
However there are drugs that once you have that effect within the first few weeks, it can last a lifetime. That could be from a permanent injury to an organ that can’t repair itself (unlike the liver) or an autoimmune response where for some rare situations the immune system creates antibodies against itself and they persist. The clinical trials for the covid vaccines have shown no permanent organ injuries which would have shown up by now. This clotting reaction for AZ and J&J is a result of an immune reaction where antibodies, we think to platelets or blood vessels, seem to be the cause. The good news is that once treated it does not seem to persist, at least not at the same severity that it causes significant clots. And it only happens in that small handful of patients.
Unfortunately we still can’t identify those few people it occurs but your immune system, like your DNA, is unique to you and part of it develops while you are an embryo in a way that eliminates antibodies that recognize and attack your own body. That process is imperfect and when those antibodies get activated by an exposure to a pathogen, they then attack the body as well.
The drugs that act like radiation are chemotherapy drugs which are designed to damage DNA. Yes they can have delayed effects many years later but they will also have clear effects today on fast reproducing organs like hair, bowels, mucosal linings.
We would have seen those effects in the trials if any of the vaccines damaged DNA. And the mechanisms of the covid19 vaccines are very well understood and these vaccines have no effect on host DNA as I explained in the other thread. The mRNA technology is new in terms of as a method of drug delivery. But in terms of how it works to produce immunity, that is a very well studied mechanism we have over a century of experience with.
Last edited:
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
You are correct that imaging is often over used and the long term radiation effects often underappreciated by doctors. A large part of the problem is litigation risk which is a problem in Australia but a much bigger problem in the US. Doctors don’t make money from ordering tests but they reduce the risk of a lawsuit for an incorrect diagnosis, a risk that can be managed in other ways like regular follow up which is hard to get for many reasons. Sometimes the scan is just the option of least resistance.
Before I started medicine I took 6 months of radiation therapy to train to be a radiographer. So my education in radiation exposure and effects is more than the average doctor and I tend to be on the conservative side of ordering CTs. In australia a lot of the newer guidelines that are released are about reducing unnecessary imaging both from a cost and harm reduction perspective.
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
I noticed you joined in 2017. I’ve been here since 2005 before becoming a doctor and still consider myself Baptist even though the church I attend is not Baptist. I have engaged in many challenging but civil theological and political discussions with those who disagree with me here. I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing here for 16 years. The motto when I joined was that the truth shall set you free. We’ve all heard of iron sharpening iron.
I grew up in conservative evangelical Baptist churches in the US and Canada and currently attend a conservative evangelical church in Australia.
It saddens me that God’s name has been tarnished by the way that conservative evangelical Christians have drifted from God, scripture and truth because of politics and misinformation. My desire is for the church to bring glory, not shame to God’s name.
My hope is that there are Christians reading my words that see the same problems and have that same hope but may not have the words to articulate or knowledge of scripture, medicine, science, politics to be able to sift through all the misinformation out there.
When it comes to the pandemic, there are lives at stake and my concern is not just for my patients but I hope we can all have the eyes of God who has compassion on all of humanity.
Last edited:
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
With regard to Australia becoming a police state, I would say that the police are much more present and visible whenever I visit the US compared to my time in Australia and Canada. Our prime minister is an openly conservative evangelical as are many of our parliamentarians. I would say the state government is quite good at using alternatives to police to enforce rules.
I understand that health orders in a pandemic are very difficult to comply with for some and I think the state governments generally has been good at communicating and giving people multiple chances to comply. Most Australians see the benefits of aggressive public health policy to keep the pandemic at bay when we have had little to no covid, open cities and a thriving economy for over half a year while many other parts of the world are still struggling with the disease and economically.
Call that a police state if you want. I call it good governance that maximizes the long term freedom and prosperity of all of society with short term local evidence based public health restrictions.
