Have you encountered a demon possessed person?

[Bro. Curtis]

Saul was tormented by an evil spirit.

I said spiritual oppression is not demon possession in my first post.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Well, I certainly respect your position. But, believe it or not, they do still happen and I do not see how these detract from Christ's glory, except of course when people think it takes a certain established religion and their appointed exorcists to battle them, as TV shows and Hollywood would have the naive believe.

I certainly have not formed my opinions by watching TV.

 

[DHK]

Even if I conceded all of that, and thanx, BTW for the post, we still have at least 500 years between the flood, and the time of Christ, where demon possession does not seem to be a problem.

I stand on demon possession was for Christ's time, to show his miracles. I see no reason to worry about demon possession.

Let's look at some of that reasoning. Your 500 years is close to the date of writing of the last prophet of the OT. Those intertestament years are often considered "the silent years" as no revelation was given at that time.

However,
The flood took place ca. 2350 B.C.
Abraham lived ca. 2000
Moses delivered Israel ca. 1440 B.C.
David's reign ca. 1000 B.C.
Isaiah wrote ca. 700 B.C.
Some of the last prophets to write ca. 500 B.C.

Thus there was a period of time from the Flood to Christ of almost 2,400 years.
The Bible records that an "evil spirit came upon Saul."
When David came and played with his harp the evil spirit fled. David himself was filled with the Spirit of God. When David left, the evil spirit would come back.
Relate that to what pinoy said:

Songs were sung, and when we sang "Nothing but the blood", the fireworks began.

Demons hate spiritual music, especially that music which is about the blood of Christ. However David was a man after God's own heart. The very presence of David would have disturbed them.

Read about the life of Mannasseh. He is the most wicked king that ever lived. He caused his own children to be sacrificed alive.
[FONT=&quot]2 Chronicles 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.[/FONT]
--Often a person may become demon possessed when they practice witchcraft, occult practices. See the fruit. He sacrificed his own children. What man in his own sanity would drive him to do that?

Why in the law was it written:
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"? What was her real crime?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Let's look at some of that reasoning. Your 500 years is close to the date of writing of the last prophet of the OT. Those intertestament years are often considered "the silent years" as no revelation was given at that time.

However,
The flood took place ca. 2350 B.C.
Abraham lived ca. 2000
Moses delivered Israel ca. 1440 B.C.
David's reign ca. 1000 B.C.
Isaiah wrote ca. 700 B.C.
Some of the last prophets to write ca. 500 B.C.

I meant to type "1500" years. I really did. My mistake. It was at least 1500 years. It was a long time.

Thus there was a period of time from the Flood to Christ of almost 2,400 years.
The Bible records that an "evil spirit came upon Saul."
When David came and played with his harp the evil spirit fled. David himself was filled with the Spirit of God. When David left, the evil spirit would come back.

Third time….spiritual oppression is not demon possession. No time in the Old Testament, save ARGUABLY the "time of (R.D2's) monsters" does a demon take possession of a human body. Even RD2's thing is iffy, at best.

 

[DHK]

I meant to type "1500" years. I really did. My mistake. It was at least 1500 years. It was a long time.

Third time….spiritual oppression is not demon possession. No time in the Old Testament, save ARGUABLY the "time of (R.D2's) monsters" does a demon take possession of a human body. Even RD2's thing is iffy, at best.

How are we to make any such statement or judgement with any authority? How do you know that?
How long had the man at Gadarenes been living there before Jesus came?
How many just like him wandered those areas before Christ was born?
Your arguments are born from silence.

Do demon-possessed people suddenly just appear in history just because Christ is born? Did they not live before his time, and did they not live after his time, and therefore do they not also live today?

Was Saul a saved person?
Was Manasseh a saved person?
Saved people may or may not be oppressed. But Satan has no reason to "oppress" the unsaved. At any chance he would jump in and possess them, just as he did in so many cases in the NT. Both the Apostles and Jesus cast demons or evil spirit out of many.

Paul spoke to Timothy:
[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.[/FONT]
--We believe that "the last days" are applicable to today.

[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.[/FONT]
--Jannes and Jambres were the magicians that were able to replicate the first three of Moses' miracles. They did it by Satanic power. They were demon possessed.
As they withstood Moses so do some men do today. They also resist the truth, men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

From the Pulpit Commentary:

[/FONT]Impostors for seducers, A.V Evil men (ponhroi). Inv. 2Ti 4:18 it is pantov ergou ponhrou. The adjective is applied indifferently to persons and things—evil men, evil servants, evil persons, evil generation, evil spirits, etc., and evil deeds, evil fruits, evil eye, evil works, etc. Satan, the embodiment of evil, is oJ ponhro Impostors (gontev); only here in the New Testament. In classical Greek gohv is a juggler, a cheat, an enchanter. St. Paul still had the Egyptian magicians in his mind. Shall wax worse and worse (prokoyousin ejpi to ceiron); see above, ver. 9, note.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

How are we to make any such statement or judgement with any authority? How do you know that?
How long had the man at Gadarenes been living there before Jesus came?
How many just like him wandered those areas before Christ was born?
Your arguments are born from silence.

Yes. Scriptural silence.

Do demon-possessed people suddenly just appear in history just because Christ is born? Did they not live before his time, and did they not live after his time, and therefore do they not also live today?

Yes. God allowed demons to possess human bodies in the time of Christ and the Acts of the Apostles, as a sign that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. People don't turn water into wine, or raise the dead anymore, either. Signs have stopped.

Was Saul a saved person?
Was Manasseh a saved person?

Which Saul ? And I'm not sure why you would ask this. Were either one of them ever possessed ? or were they simply vexed ?

Saved people may or may not be oppressed. But Satan has no reason to "oppress" the unsaved. At any chance he would jump in and possess them, just as he did in so many cases in the NT.

Purely speculation.

Both the Apostles and Jesus cast demons or evil spirit out of many.

I have not denied this.

…..Jannes and Jambres were the magicians that were able to replicate the first three of Moses' miracles. They did it by Satanic power. They were demon possessed.

Scripture says nothing like this. It says they were magicians. Enchanted. Practiced in the secret arts. Not possessed.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I certainly have not formed my opinions by watching TV.

I am quite sure you did not. Never said you did.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I guess I meant that in a friendlier way than you took it.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I guess I meant that in a friendlier way than you took it.

If this was addressed to me, rest assured I took it as friendly, not anything else. Come on, brother, you and I never were unfriendly to each other, were we ?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I don't remember being unfriendly towards each other. I disagree with you here, but count you among the good guys. :thumbs:

 

[Revmitchell]

Arguing against possession but conceding to oppression doesn't make any sense.

 

[DHK]

Yes. Scriptural silence.

Yes. God allowed demons to possess human bodies in the time of Christ and the Acts of the Apostles, as a sign that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. People don't turn water into wine, or raise the dead anymore, either. Signs have stopped.

[FONT=&quot]Mark 5:1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.[/FONT]

Jesus ministry was only 3 1/2 years. By the wording this man had been there a long time. He was a regular fixture. It is likely that he was there long before the ministry of Jesus ever started.

This is a person. He is not a sign. Jesus is dealing with a person's life. How can you compare this to turning water into wine. He "healed" him.
Do you ever see healing in your own life.
I don't believe anyone today has the gift of healing as demonstrated by Peter in Acts 5:16 where all that came to Peter (thousands) were healed.
But I do believe that God heals in answer to prayer according to His will, according to the principles set forth in His Word. He does the same thing with those who are possessed. They need "healing." This is not a sign.

You are denying the testimonies of many of those that have witnessed such people, of most missionaries, and I believe of Scripture itself.
For the record, I don't believe that Saul (king of Israel) was ever saved.
Therefore, it is entirely possible that at times he was possessed by a demon. But it is difficult to tell, for in the Bible, especially in the NT, the word is "demonized" if more accurately translated. And the Holy Spirit's ministry was different in the OT than that of the NT.

But this one truth is evident, we fight a spiritual warfare today.
We are to be ready for that warfare. It is not fought with carnal means.
We are against a formidable foe; he is real and alive. There is but one satan, but he is ubiquitous due to his legions of demons who are very active in this world today.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 5:1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.[/FONT]

Jesus ministry was only 3 1/2 years. By the wording this man had been there a long time. He was a regular fixture. It is likely that he was there long before the ministry of Jesus ever started.

It's more likely that you're adding to scripture to back up a claim that is not there.

This is a person. He is not a sign. Jesus is dealing with a person's life. How can you compare this to turning water into wine. He "healed" him.

To bring glory to his name.

Do you ever see healing in your own life.

I am a lymphoma survivor.

I don't believe anyone today has the gift of healing as demonstrated by Peter in Acts 5:16 where all that came to Peter (thousands) were healed.

We agree.

But I do believe that God heals in answer to prayer according to His will, according to the principles set forth in His Word.

We agree.

He does the same thing with those who are possessed. They need "healing." This is not a sign.

We disagree.

You are denying the testimonies of many of those that have witnessed such people, of most missionaries, and I believe of Scripture itself.

Whatever.

For the record, I don't believe that Saul (king of Israel) was ever saved.
Therefore, it is entirely possible that at times he was possessed by a demon. But it is difficult to tell, for in the Bible, especially in the NT, the word is "demonized" if more accurately translated. And the Holy Spirit's ministry was different in the OT than that of the NT.

I don't deal in
entirely possible". Nowhere does it EVER claim Saul was in need of an exorcism. As far as his salvation, I don't think it worked like it does now, but he was not a man of God, according to scripture.

But this one truth is evident, we fight a spiritual warfare today.
We are to be ready for that warfare. It is not fought with carnal means.
We are against a formidable foe; he is real and alive. There is but one satan, but he is ubiquitous due to his legions of demons who are very active in this world today.

We agree.

 

[Revmitchell]

No where does scripture say that God allowed demons to possess bodies to show who Christ was. We do know that Jesus healed and delivered to show who He was.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Mark chapter 3 describes these powers given to the apostles. Nowhere are these powers ever granted to anyone else.

 

[DHK]

Mark chapter 3 describes these powers given to the apostles. Nowhere are these powers ever granted to anyone else.

Nowhere?
[FONT=&quot]Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.[/FONT]
--There were only 12 apostles.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Not after Acts.

And Paul, though not of the original twelve, was every bit the Apostle Peter and James were.

 

[DHK]

Not after Acts.

And Paul, though not of the original twelve, was every bit the Apostle Peter and James were.

Here is a good quote from "the Moorish Bible Dictionary."

It must not be supposed that demon-agency has ceased: the exhortation is, "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1Jo 4:1. With this agrees the declaration that "in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons." 1Ti 4:1. Spiritualists and Theosophists carry on intercourse with such, and are taught by them. In a future day also, when God will be pouring out His judgements on the earth, men will not repent, but will worship demons and all sorts of idols. Re 9:20. The spirits of demons also, by working miracles, will gather the kings of the earth together to the battle of that great day of Almighty God. Re 16:14. And mystical Babylon will become "the habitation of demons, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Re 18:2. The world and the professing church are evidently ripening for these things; and some, under the plea of investigating phenomena, are unconsciously having to do with the wicked spirits themselves!

Note the Scripture still applicable to today:
[FONT=&quot]1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--This presupposes that there are some that are possessed by demonic spirits. Test or try the spirits whether they be of God.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Some of our present day doctrine is of the devil. It is called "doctrine of demons. The Scriptures give us two examples:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--The RCC commands their priest that they do not marry.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--The SDA commands their followers that they do not eat certain foods.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These are two examples of doctrines of demons.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The examples given in the Book of Revelation are still to come, future, though some of it may be going on today:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--They continued to worship demons as some still do today.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Check out the religion of Spiritualists, Theosophy, Wicca, etc.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[righteousdude2]

You are Correct....Angels do not marry

Jesus proved this interpretation wrong when he told us angels do not marry.

But, the fallen angels, or demons were not anything like the third that remained loyal to God and stayed in heaven. There is the entire story of Noah, and the Sons of God married the daughter of men! The sons of God were fallen angels!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

But, the fallen angels, or demons were not anything like the third that remained loyal to God and stayed in heaven. There is the entire story of Noah, and the Sons of God married the daughter of men! The sons of God were fallen angels!

For all your huffing and puffing, you have not been able to show a single unarguable demonic possession of a human body outside of the time of Christ and his apostles.