Have you encountered a demon possessed person?

[InTheLight]

You mint have guessed this already, but I put UFO sightings right up there with demonic possessions.

I think demon possessions can occur but are rare in the West. More prevalent in pagan countries. I've heard too many accounts from missionaries to discount them. I thought you gave a reasoned argument against them, however.

I put UFO sightings right up there with the government is poisoning us with jet contrails, government leaders are really lizard creatures, corporations have made us helpless, quivering compulsive consumers using advertising, and the false right vs. left paradigm.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I think demon possessions can occur but are rare in the West. More prevalent in pagan countries. I've heard too many accounts from missionaries to discount them. I thought you gave a reasoned argument against them, however.

Thank you. :thumbsup: It is very intimidating to lock horns with a poster like DHK in any theology discussion.

I put UFO sightings right up there with the government is poisoning us with jet contrails, government leaders are really lizard creatures, corporations have made us helpless, quivering compulsive consumers using advertising, and the false right vs. left paradigm.

I have noticed the people who claim to have seen them have always seen 4 or 5 of them.

 

[InTheLight]

I have noticed the people who claim to have seen them have always seen 4 or 5 of them.

And they didn't have their phone with them to take pictures. Or the battery was dead.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

When you see foaming in the mouth, glaring eyes, speaking in a different voice, super-human strength--that is possession.

Or rabies. or PCP.

 

[DHK]

All this was to me, eh ?

Saul might not have been saved, bet he was not possessed, although you have tried, several times. He was troubled. He didn't cut himself with rocks and utter blasphemies. He didn't break any chains. He never spoke with another voice. He functioned quite well in society.

There are a couple factors to consider. He may or may not have been "possessed" in the sense that we see demon-possessed individuals in the NT, or as the Gadarene demoniac. Remember also that his name was "Legion" for he was possessed with many (perhaps 1,000) demons, and hence the great strength.

Second, accounts given in the OT are different than those in the NT, even among the saved. The Spirit came upon an individual instead of indwelling an individual. The ministry of the Spirit and of spirits was different.

Third, this passage that I previously quoted still must still be explained:
[FONT=&quot]1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.[/FONT]
--"And the evil spirit departed from him."

What happened to Saul? He was obviously disturbed by a demon. That is what an evil spirit is.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

There are a couple factors to consider. He may or may not have been "possessed" in the sense that we see demon-possessed individuals in the NT, or as the Gadarene demoniac. Remember also that his name was "Legion" for he was possessed with many (perhaps 1,000) demons, and hence the great strength.

Second, accounts given in the OT are different than those in the NT, even among the saved. The Spirit came upon an individual instead of indwelling an individual. The ministry of the Spirit and of spirits was different.

Now this sounds more like where I am coming from.

Third, this passage that I previously quoted still must still be explained:
[FONT=&quot]1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.[/FONT]
--"And the evil spirit departed from him."

What happened to Saul? He was obviously disturbed by a demon. That is what an evil spirit is.

I know the verse well, and I also know the intangible qualities of music. Speculation, not scripture, but yes David used his harp to soothe Saul, but I would bet 100 pushups he used that same harp when he seduced Bathsheba.

Saul was disturbed, vexed, agitated, TORMENTED, I concede all of that. Yet he was always Saul.

 

[Revmitchell]

Then would you say Christ was possessed when he was being tried in the desert ? I sure wouldn't.

Oppression is not possession. Makes perfect sense.

I didn't suggest that it was. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Christ was neither possessed nor oppressed.

Oppression and being tempted by Satan are not the same thing.

 

[DHK]

So when an output transistor shorts out due to a combination of being overdriven and shoddy wiring, that's satan ?

More likely due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

 

[DHK]

I know the verse well, and I also know the intangible qualities of music. Speculation, not scripture, but yes David used his harp to soothe Saul, but I would bet 100 pushups he used that same harp when he seduced Bathsheba.

Saul was disturbed, vexed, agitated, TORMENTED, I concede all of that. Yet he was always Saul.

Saul was still Saul. Of course he was. Even in the NT those possessed by demons don't change into another person. I don't know where you are going with that.

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 17:14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.[/FONT]

The WEB translates verse 15 this way:
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 17:15 "Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is epileptic, and suffers grievously; for he often falls into the fire, and often into the water.
--According to the account that Matthew gives, the boy was an epileptic, the epilepsy caused by a demon. Jesus cast out the demon and at the same time healed the boy. But as you say: "the boy was still the boy," whether demon possessed or not. That fact doesn't change. In fact that is the way it is all throughout the NT. I don't really understand your comment about Saul still being Saul.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]1. The account states: [FONT=&quot]"An evil spirit from the Lord troubled him."
[FONT=&quot]2. Others could visibly see a change in Saul: "Behold...an evil spirit from God troubles thee."
[FONT=&quot]3. It became evident when the evil spirit left Saul: "So Saul was ref[FONT=&quot]reshed[FONT=&quot], and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.[FONT=&quot]"

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Now, wi[FONT=&quot]thout getting into any debate about musi[FONT=&quot]c, it is evident that a[FONT=&quot]n evil spirit came upon Saul and then departed from Saul. This cannot b[FONT=&quot]e avoided.
[FONT=&quot]I don't believe it was the music alone. It was the[FONT=&quot] person playing the music. David was a Godly man, a man after God's own heart, a man of pra[FONT=&quot]yer, a man of the Word. Compared to others he was a [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]spiritual[/FONT] giant. It simply wasn't the harp of David, but David himself[FONT=&quot]. A demon doesn't fear a harp. A demon fears a Godly man. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The bible describes David's harp playing as "cunning". Music is more powerful than the person playing it. Without trying to debate.

 

[DHK]

The bible describes David's harp playing as "cunning". Music is more powerful than the person playing it. Without trying to debate.

I agree. It is very powerful. I believe it had some part in Israel's rebellion at Mount Sinai when they were dancing around the golden calf.
But is music, in and of itself, powerful enough to drive away an evil spirit?
I only wish it were that easy.

Eph.6:11-18 describes the spiritual armour that we are to arm ourselves with. Music is not part of it.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I agree. It is very powerful. I believe it had some part in Israel's rebellion at Mount Sinai when they were dancing around the golden calf.
But is music, in and of itself, powerful enough to drive away an evil spirit?
I only wish it were that easy.

Eph.6:11-18 describes the spiritual armour that we are to arm ourselves with. Music is not part of it.

No, but music does edify, as well as divide.