He is the propitiation for our sins:

[Van]

My friend asked me what is my purpose of discussing these theological divisions and my answer is this;
ultimately freewill says that God gives everyone a choice and this weakens the need to spread the gospel. Election when presented incorrectly forces good Christians to reject it because it incorrectly says God only wants certain people so division in the Church is perpetuated and the Church is not as effective as it could be at getting the gospel to as many people as possible. If the godly people from both sides of this argument united in the common goal of spreading the gospel I think we could we used by God to make a difference. We should come together and discuss how to reach these other people and what are the best strategies we can use.
Does anyone know here why Muslims don't accept Jesus as Lord. I am ashamed to say I don't but I want to learn. I am thinking of reading the Quran, has anyone done that here? I give to an outreach for closed nations, does anyone here do that too? What do you think is the best way, or what ways have you found to reach closed people groups? Thank you for your input in advance!

I have no specific knowledge concerning rejection by Muslims, but here on this forum we see rejection of doctrine non-stop. Once a person (me included) decides they have determined what is true, they tend to be judgmental toward other views. Both the Calvinists and the KJVO folks "know" they are right, and nothing said to them will penetrate their mindset. It is for us to devote our resources to those who are open to God's message.

Interestingly, Calvinism was born by people trying to explain rejection of the gospel.

 

[Titus Tarnum]

I have no specific knowledge concerning rejection by Muslims, but here on this forum we see rejection of doctrine non-stop. Once a person (me included) decides they have determined what is true, they tend to be judgmental toward other views. Both the Calvinists and the KJVO folks "know" they are right, and nothing said to them will penetrate their mindset. It is for us to devote our resources to those who are open to God's message.

Interestingly, Calvinism was born by people trying to explain rejection of the gospel.

I have decided to to listen to some podcasts on reaching other people; I just never occurred to me that I could do that; duh... I haven't ever used podcasts before so this will be a first; not that its hard I
just never saw a need. In the past i have used Siri's book reading skills and I might do that with the Quran; audible books are way more expensive than the plain digital paper ones, so that's what ill do i think. [emoji3]


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[Paul from Antioch]

I have decided to to listen to some podcasts on reaching other people; I just never occurred to me that I could do that; duh... I haven't ever used podcasts before so this will be a first; not that its hard I
just never saw a need. In the past i have used Siri's book reading skills and I might do that with the Quran; audible books are way more expensive than the plain digital paper ones, so that's what ill do i think. [emoji3]


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But....but....Isaac & Ishmael were both sons of Abraham....Isaac was a deceiver & Ishmael forsook the promise of a ruling desendency for a bowl of beans.....AND both revere Jerusalem as a very HOLY city....Brother hating brother!! Seems to me Abe & Sarah did a real bang-up job of training up their boys "In the way they SHOULD go"!!!! Thank God that, "HE looked beyond our faults and saw OUR NEED"!!! (Can I get me a witness??)

 

[AustinC]

But....but....Isaac & Ishmael were both sons of Abraham....Isaac was a deceiver & Ishmael forsook the promise of a ruling desendency for a bowl of beans.....AND both revere Jerusalem as a very HOLY city....Brother hating brother!! Seems to me Abe & Sarah did a real bang-up job of training up their boys "In the way they SHOULD go"!!!! Thank God that, "HE looked beyond our faults and saw OUR NEED"!!! (Can I get me a witness??)

...so you're saying God must extend grace or we are doomed. I agree.
Note that God chose to extend grace to Isaac and not Ishmael. He chose to extend grace to Jacob and not Esau. It's interesting to observe how God chooses to do whatever He wills to do.

 

[Titus Tarnum]

But....but....Isaac & Ishmael were both sons of Abraham....Isaac was a deceiver & Ishmael forsook the promise of a ruling desendency for a bowl of beans.....AND both revere Jerusalem as a very HOLY city....Brother hating brother!! Seems to me Abe & Sarah did a real bang-up job of training up their boys "In the way they SHOULD go"!!!! Thank God that, "HE looked beyond our faults and saw OUR NEED"!!! (Can I get me a witness??)

Amen brother!


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[Titus Tarnum]

...so you're saying God must extend grace or we are doomed. I agree.
Note that God chose to extend grace to Isaac and not Ishmael. He chose to extend grace to Jacob and not Esau. It's interesting to observe how God chooses to do whatever He wills to do.

No grace for Esau, I'm going to see for myself, maybe God changed His mind after the New Covenant [emoji848]


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[Brightfame52]

The Jews were but election is not for gentiles.
MB

I have already done that before, not wasting my time. We will see at the Judgment ! The main thing, Its only for Gods Elect that Christ made a propitiation for, and not all without exception since some people are under wrath and going to hell !

 

[George Antonios]

that God brings you to a point of choice and that you can't get there without his bringing you to that point.

Right, provisionally, by conscience, creation, circumstances, and the conviction of the Spirit through the preaching of the word and the aforementioned God-ordained tools.

It is always been Christ our Savior even in the old covenant; the patriarchs, David, Moses all had faith in Christ

An oft-repeated mantra with no backing in scriptures. The apostles themselves had no idea what the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ meant. Paul repeatedly tells us that under the law men were shut up from the faith which should afterward be revealed.

I was just wondering if you followed Arminianism.

I certainly do not.

But what about the other points that I made; do you believe that someone else could've chose differently or Adam himself could've chose differently and we would still be in the Garden and no one would have suffered and Christ wouldn't of had to have given His life?

Yes, I do believe that. That's how I read my Bible. I know we differ, but I'm answering your question.

Is free will that powerful in your opinion?

A loaded and thus meaningless question.

To clarify; the God that formed Adam was Jesus Christ, the God that spoke to Abraham was Jesus Christ the Angel in the burning bush was Jesus Christ. The rock smitten by Moses was Jesus Christ .The Captain of the Hosts at Jericho was Jesus Christ.

Right.

David knew of Jesus Christ intimately.

Wrong, though he did have an idea, and he was exceptional in that regard.

I appreciate you trying to understand my position. If I misunderstand yours, let me know.

 

[George Antonios]

Does anyone know here why Muslims don't accept Jesus as Lord. I am ashamed to say I don't but I want to learn. I am thinking of reading the Quran, has anyone done that here?

I was born and raised in Lebanon and read the Qur'an in my native Arabic.

Part of the reason they reject Jesus is the fact that we have 600+ English Bible versions.
They won't listen to a man who thinks all versions are equally God's word.
In that regard, they have more sense than your average modern Christian scholar.
Being Shemitic sons of Abraham still procured them enough common sense to understand at least that much.
Japhethite Christians just can't get it through their thick head - they're too puffed up with scholarly "knowledge".

 

[Paul from Antioch]

I was born and raised in Lebanon and read the Qur'an in my native Arabic.

Part of the reason they reject Jesus is the fact that we have 600+ English Bible versions.
They won't listen to a man who thinks all versions are equally God's word.
In that regard, they have more sense than your average modern Christian scholar.
Being Shemitic sons of Abraham still procured them enough common sense to understand at least that much.
Japhethite Christians just can't get it through their thick head - they're too puffed up with scholarly "knowledge".

I rest MY CASE!!

 

[Titus Tarnum]

I rest MY CASE!!

?


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[Titus Tarnum]

Right, provisionally, by conscience, creation, circumstances, and the conviction of the Spirit through the preaching of the word and the aforementioned God-ordained tools.
.

I am glad you see the truth in my comment that is something to build on[emoji3]
You are defending freewill choice; are you defending that everyone throughout time and place has been afforded this choice as long as they were alive, or at least to the point that their rejection of God was complete? Some people believe grace is available throughout your life while others like me believe otherwise. The key question is has grace been afforded to all in a sufficient quantity for the individual to choose damnation or salvation through Jesus who is the only person who we are saved through.

An oft-repeated mantra with no backing in scriptures. The apostles themselves had no idea what the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ meant. Paul repeatedly tells us that under the law men were shut up from the faith which should afterward be revealed. .

So in whom do you think they had saving faith in if it wasn't Jesus?

Yes, I do believe that. That's how I read my Bible. I know we differ, but I'm answering your question.
.

So by one man's sin all died...

A loaded and thus meaningless question.
.

Only if you don't value your own opinion

Wrong, though he did have an idea, and he was exceptional in that regard.
.

Psalms 110:1
Announcement of the Messiah’s Reign
(Matt. 22:44; Acts 2:34, 35)
A Psalm of David.
The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

Hebrews 11:39
And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Hebrews 11:40
God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
Galatians 3:14
that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Acts 4:12
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Salvation has always been exclusive to belief in Jesus

 

[Titus Tarnum]

I was born and raised in Lebanon and read the Qur'an in my native Arabic.

Part of the reason they reject Jesus is the fact that we have 600+ English Bible versions.
They won't listen to a man who thinks all versions are equally God's word.
In that regard, they have more sense than your average modern Christian scholar.
Being Shemitic sons of Abraham still procured them enough common sense to understand at least that much.
Japhethite Christians just can't get it through their thick head - they're too puffed up with scholarly "knowledge".

Awesome! Do you think it is a good idea or not to read the Qur'an?
I've started listening to podcasts about reaching Muslims, what touched you about the Word if I am not getting too personal?
What translation do you use?

Japhetites
Wikipedia, free encyclopedia
The term has been used in modern times as a designation in physical anthropology, ethnography and comparative linguistics. In anthropology, it was used in a racial sense for white people

Lol! U calling me white sucka?[emoji3]

 

[Brightfame52]

At one point in your life the wrath of God abode on you, you became elect when Christ paid the blood price for your sin and you were adopted into the second Adam, you weren't born already adopted...


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You sound real confused. Post 78 did you read ?

 

[George Antonios]

The Whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 is a Justified World

Translation: "Here's how we work around 1John 2:2 - we add the word 'justified' before 'world', and voilà".

 

[Titus Tarnum]

You sound real confused. Post 78 did you read ?

Romans 5:18
Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Just because there's a bag of chips in the store that everyone can buy, it doesn't mean everyone owns a bag of chips...hehe, am I waxing too poetic?


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[George Antonios]

Awesome! Do you think it is a good idea or not to read the Qur'an?
I've started listening to podcasts about reaching Muslims, what touched you about the Word if I am not getting too personal?
What translation do you use?

Japhetites
Wikipedia, free encyclopedia
The term has been used in modern times as a designation in physical anthropology, ethnography and comparative linguistics. In anthropology, it was used in a racial sense for white people

Lol! U calling me white sucka?[emoji3]

I wasn't born into a Muslim setting even though Lebanon is mainly Muslim. My parents were saved but we still had heavy Catholic/Orthodox presence.

Yes it's a good idea to read it if you're going to witness to Muslims. They'll respect the fact that you read it.

King James Bible, as do many non-native English speakers.

I am fair skinned (though very easily tanned). Japhethite is not a pejorative term.

 

[Brightfame52]

Translation: "Here's how we work around 1John 2:2 - we add the word 'justified' before 'world', and voilà".

Do you know why its a justified world ? I discussed it.

 

[Titus Tarnum]

I wasn't born into a Muslim setting even though Lebanon is mainly Muslim. My parents were saved but we still had heavy Catholic/Orthodox presence.

Yes it's a good idea to read it if you're going to witness to Muslims. They'll respect the fact that you read it.

King James Bible, as do many non-native English speakers.

I am fair skinned (though very easily tanned). Japhethite is not a pejorative term.

I started reading the Bible and stayed with the King James for many years now I have a hell of a time when I'm looking for a scripture because my ESV doesn't read the same way so when you search for things you can't find them…
If I find some thing that may have a questionable translation I prefer to go back to the Strongs exhaustive concordance.
I suspected from your avatar that you were "fair skinned". And with a name like Antonios I thought maybe Italian, Greek ?
And I didn't take offense I was just joking [emoji3]

Whatever your background your name has an awesome meaning!

The meaning of the name “Antonios” is: “Priceless; inestimable or praiseworthy”. Categories: Greek Names, Saints Names. Used in: Greek speaking countries.

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 5:18
Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Just because there's a bag of chips in the store that everyone can buy, it doesn't mean everyone owns a bag of chips...hehe, am I waxing too poetic?


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Post 78 did u read ?