JonC,
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He Who Covers Sin Shall Not Prosper
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
Matthew Henry
Verse 13 Here is, 1. The folly of indulging sin, of palliating and excusing it, denying or extenuating it, diminishing it, dissembling it, or throwing the blame of it upon others: He that thus covers his sins shall not prosper, let him never expect it. He shall not succeed in his endeavour to cover his sin, for it will be discovered, sooner or later. There is nothing hid which shall not be revealed. A bird of the air shall carry the voice. Murder will out, and so will other sins. He shall not prosper, that is, he shall not obtain the pardon of his sin, nor can he have any true peace of conscience. David owns himself to have been in a constant agitation while he covered his sins, Ps. 32:3, Ps. 32:4 . While the patient conceals his distemper he cannot expect a cure. 2. The benefit of parting with it, both by a penitent confession and a universal reformation: He that confesses his guilt to God, and is careful not to return to sin again, shall find mercy with God, and shall have the comfort of it in his own bosom. His conscience shall be eased and his ruin prevented. See 1 Jn. 1:9 ; Jer. 3:12, Jer. 3:13 . When we set sin before our face (as David, My sin is ever before me ) God casts it behind his back.
Verse 13 Here is, 1. The folly of indulging sin, of palliating and excusing it, denying or extenuating it, diminishing it, dissembling it, or throwing the blame of it upon others: He that thus covers his sins shall not prosper, let him never expect it. He shall not succeed in his endeavour to cover his sin, for it will be discovered, sooner or later. There is nothing hid which shall not be revealed. A bird of the air shall carry the voice. Murder will out, and so will other sins. He shall not prosper, that is, he shall not obtain the pardon of his sin, nor can he have any true peace of conscience. David owns himself to have been in a constant agitation while he covered his sins, Ps. 32:3, Ps. 32:4 . While the patient conceals his distemper he cannot expect a cure. 2. The benefit of parting with it, both by a penitent confession and a universal reformation: He that confesses his guilt to God, and is careful not to return to sin again, shall find mercy with God, and shall have the comfort of it in his own bosom. His conscience shall be eased and his ruin prevented. See 1 Jn. 1:9 ; Jer. 3:12, Jer. 3:13 . When we set sin before our face (as David, My sin is ever before me ) God casts it behind his back.
Most times I enjoy my sin I know that God knows this
You misunderstand.
I am not speaking of my struggles but of picking up my cross daily. For believers taking up their cross and following Jesus means dying to the flesh and walking in the Light. It is, I know, a strange concept to the world but that is because the world is focused on the flesh.
It should not be so strange a concept to you.
Rather than "covering sin" or "walking in darkness" we are to live "in Christ".
To reiterate my experience on another board, as you seem not to have grasped the point, there was a man who years ago decided for some reason he would slander me and try to discredit me by making false accusations (I do not know why, nor do I care). He lied about me and I responded by insulting him. But sin feeds sin and this went on, he became obsessed and blinded by his own hatred, I continued to become hateful in my responses.
It was proven by a committee of Christians that he was wrong. No one knows what set this guy off (originally), I suspect it was simply that I disagreed with him, but sin led him to make assumptions at every turn and he was blinded by his own hatred, by his own agenda. But I was no better. I responded to his false accusations with insults. I was likewise confronted for my sin.
Three different groups of Christians came to the exact same conclusion. He was spreading lies about me and I was respondent in hatred. We were both wrong. He violated one of the Ten Commandments as he is guilty of bearing false witness (thus was proven by the admins.). I did not violate one of the ten commandments but was equally guilty of sin (also proven by the admins).
Looking at the OP we have two sinners. The man who was caught in the sin of bearing false witness (lies and slander) and me because of how I responded to him.
When confronted by Christians (granted, a third time) God opened my eyes to my sin. I repented, apologized to the man, forgave him for lying about me, and was forgiven by God. Rather than remaining in sin I confessed my sin, apologized, and forgave the man for lying about me. I was forgiven and died to that sin in my life (or, killed that sin).
On the other hand, that man remained prideful and blind to his own sin. He refused to "take up his cross". His sin was more important to him than Christ. Even after three different groups of Christian administrators (who could examine both sides of the issue) concluded he was wrong he chose to embrace sin. One even begged him to repent and follow Christ. He refused because he loved his sin more than he loves God.
He is condemned NOT for covering his sin (his sin is well known not only by the board but more importantly by God). He is condemned because he has chosen sin and rejected Christ in the choosing.
This is the condemnation. He has rejected the Light because his deeds are evil. The issue is not covering sin but rejecting Christ because to follow Him means to abandon our sin.
This speaks directly to the OP. It is a true account and I offer it not to praise myself (something you accused me of) or to show where I struggle (your other accusation). I offer it to show the work of God to obedience (I forgave the man, repented, and was forgiven) and the work of man in living in darkness (to my knowledge is remains in sin, he is a known trouble maker and his actions have discredited the man within that Christian community).
The command is to take up our cross and follow Christ. It is not about covering or uncovering sin but about NOT sinning. About walking in the Light. About seeking forgiveness when we do sin.
JonC,
[QUOTE]Rather than "covering sin" or "walking in darkness" we are to live "in Christ".[/QUOTE]
I am glad you feel that way, covering sin is a horrible sin. It should be confessed and forsaken.
Oh good, this is the 16th time you have done so, for a minute I thought you were going to move on, but what was I thinking?
[QUOTE]Rather than "covering sin" or "walking in darkness" we are to live "in Christ".[/QUOTE]
I am glad you feel that way, covering sin is a horrible sin. It should be confessed and forsaken.
,
Oh good, this is the 16th time you have done so, for a minute I thought you were going to move on, but what was I thinking?
as you seem not to have grasped the point,[/QUOTE]
Let me guess, you are finally going to confess your sin?
So once again you proclaim your innocence, and even though you have mentioned this account about 50 plus times,
[it seems to be etched in your mind] you cannot quite recall what it was that upset this unknown man?
"just some reason'?
Could you list the exact slander?
Could you tell us the exact false accusations?
If you do not for some reason recall, just look up those links and tell us in his words exactly what he said.
That you have disrupted thread after thread with this, there should be no reason you cannot tell us exactly what this man alleged!
That would take it out of the realm of gossip and talebearing that you seem to be doing right now.
.
This statement is unbelievable. The man obviously was upset by something you said or did!
How can you suggest you do not know?
This does not seem to be a true statement.
Also, this idea you "do not care" seems quite odd as you have mentioned this dozens of times.
You claim he lied, that is terrible. What was that lie exactly? If someone lies about me I would know exactly what that lie was.
You are not suggesting we believe your account and for some reason, you can not recall what the lie was?
So you say, but we really need to examine the root cause.
This does not follow.
What if this committee did not have all the information?
What if the information was edited and deleted?
what if the man was hindered from presenting the truth?
What if there was so much information to consider that the committee did not want to be bothered with it, but just wanted to move past it?
What if a skilled liar was fooling them, that they believed his lies?
Your claim anything was proven ,does not prove it.
,
Well This is hard to believe, lets ask him. Full disclosure is the only way you can move past this.
,
That is doubtful. Everyone disagrees with everyone at some point.
.
This is your account which cannot be trusted as far as I can tell, as you cannot say exactly what he accused you of, in his own words.
I have seen you do that to me, is how I know.I have told you, that you are not my spokeman so do not speak for me as you are not accurate, so why should anyone take your word for it?
Not the root issue, not the root cause, but a deflection.
.
This has not been established, so it is talebearing and false witness at this point. Show it, show what this man accused you of then we can understand.
Do you see the problem?
What if you are the one lying, have an agenda, and seek to discredit and assassinate this man publically?
What if you do the very things you accuse him of?
Lies plural??? What lies exactly? If there were several you could remember a few of them exactly?
So you claim, but the lingering question is, what if thou art the man?
How horrible would that be? That would according to this proverb mean that you keep repeating this story hoping to convince people that it was the other guy.
I remember a tv series where DR. Richard Kimble kept trying to find the one armed man who murdered his wife.He was found guilty by a group of people also, but eventually his name was cleared when the truth was really discovered.
You have the same opportunity now to tell us about your one armed man so to speak!.
If you cannot for any reason or make an excuse, it points the needle back at you as far as I can tell
Looking at the OP we have two sinners. The man who was caught in the sin of bearing false witness (lies and slander) and me because of how I responded to him[/QUOTE].
No, the OP. has a man lying to cover sin. Are you saying that is you?I do not see this other man coming here and speaking for himself prov.18:17,
So someone has to ask these questions. As you keep posting this saga on my threads, I take it you want me to inquire.I have asked you to stop , but you seem obsessed , so here we are.
I have reason to have my doubts, good reasons. If you produce the proof asked it would solve it. If not I have to reject all such testimony as inadmissible.
I think we all enjoy our sin...in the moment.
There are two ways we try to cover our sin. The first is to hide it from others. It is possible to do that. Some people are skilled at doing so. Some people are gullible or not spiritual enough to see through the smokescreens, lies, and deceptions. But even if a person is able to cover their sins from the eyes of others they can never hide their sins from God. Jeremiah 16:17 "For My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity concealed from My eyes." In the end, this is what matters most. These recent threads on sin have been farcical to some degree. The topic itself is important, but does anyone with two marbles rolling around in their head not know who is talking about who? Are we really to believe there is some nebulous perpetrator that is the object of this cyber dance? Is there a reason why this "secret" person has to hide in the shadows when we all know who is being discussed?
I believe that we are to share our testimonies, what God has done in our lives.
At the moment what is applicable to the OP is what God has done in my life in dealing with that situation. God convicted me of my sin and led me to repentance. That is, IMHO, what is supposed to happen.
It appears the OP may be pointing to the other man. I do not believe that we are to try to "uncover" his sins but rather to encourage him to "walk in the Light".
The difference, of course, is whether we focus on sin or we focus on Christ. I believe that if we walk in the Light then there is no darkness. When we sin we are not "walking in the Light".
It is that simple. That my testimony offends you is not something for which I will apologize. It is what God has done in my life.
I believe that we are to be honest, but at the same time not gossip. Let the one who has the shoe size wear the shoe.In my testimony I give the situation BUT I have not defended or provided my case. I will not present my case (this stuff started over 5 years ago when I was on vacation) As such I will not invite this person to plea his case. I am providing what the administrators found. Not what either of us claimed but the conclusion.
I thought that you were an administrator (or had been one) and took for granted that you understood that they could see edits and deletes where members could not. I apologize for the assumption and will clarify for the board as a whole.
For those who do not know why the administration and not members HAVE TO determine these issues:
In my testimony an individual made accusations against me. I told the person he was mistaking, but it escalated. He ended up continuing to make false accusations and I ended up responding to him inappropriately. Both this man and I appealed to the Administration to resolve the issue. The Administration listened to this man's case (he was the one making the accusations). Then they heard my defense.
The administration can SEE changes people make to their posts. They can SEE when a member deleted his or her posts and they can actually SEE the deleted post. These things are not actually removed from the board but are removed from public view. EVERY EDIT can be seen.
The Administration concluded the man had made false accusations. Part of this, they concluded, was things he had assumed rather than what was actually posted. They provided both of us with the EVIDENCE (the PROOF) based on what they and not the members could SEE. BUT they also determined that I responded to him inappropriately and that we were both at fault. This happened THREE TIMES. AND WITH A DIFFERENT GROUP OF ADMINISTRATORS. EVERY TIME the conclusion was the same. He made false accusations and I responded inappropriately.
The reason I will not argue my case or drag this man here to argue his:
1. This was on another forum and we are not allowed to drag specific issues from another board to this one.
2. I am not talking about the arguments but my testimony concerning the conclusion and how God used this in my life.
3. It would be gossip here. The members here do not need to hear two sides of an issue that has been resolved.
4. No one here could see actual evidence from the other board (only Administrators there can see).
Am I talking about Iconoclast? No. I am talking about a situation where two people were guilty of sin. One person repented and another did not. I am giving my own testimony and I will continue to do so in order that perhaps the man will stumble on this and God will lead him to Christ or back into the Light.
I will not discuss this on that other board because it would be inappropriate. But I will discuss their conclusions on the BaptistBoard because it is a part of my own testimony and what God did in my life to overcome a sin I had previously ignored.
I personally believe we are to use our testimonies and in that conviction I will use mine. True accounts that have been resolved and are in the past are better than talking about "John and Jane Doe".
"Reformed,
This verse in Jeremiah is a major reality check for all of us.
Anyone posting does so before the eyes of God.
This verse in Jeremiah is a major reality check for all of us.
Anyone posting does so before the eyes of God.
Amen. But all of Scripture should present a reality check to us all.
In the account I gave I was not only forgiven by God for confessing my own sin and forgiving the sins against me, but I was blessed. By God's grace I overcame my own sin and moved that much closer to the image of Christ. This is why I refuse to remain silent (I will not "bust the guy out" but I will afford to him every opportunity I can in hopes God will lead him to a fear of God that exceeds his hatred of others. I will never stop offering him this opportunity until he repents or one of us dies. God has put him in my path for a reason, and I think it is to keep him from moving on and trying to "cover" his sinfulness. If he is truly a Christian then God will convict him. If God does not convict him and discipline him then he is not a Christian. God disciplines His own as God has disciplined me. And I have been blessed for that assurance.
1 Peter 1:17-25
17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,
19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,
23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
24 For, "ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS, AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS. THE GRASS WITHERS, AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,
25 BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." And this is the word which was preached to you.
Christians today have lost a fear of God. They reduce this to "respect" ignoring that God will judge our hearts and call into account every wicked thing we have said. This is why we should wear out that path to His Throne through Christ in repentance.
Yes. A long time ago I enjoyed watching Bernie Williams, ignoring his affiliation.
I repented.
Probably cause the team he worked for WON!Yes. A long time ago I enjoyed watching Bernie Williams, ignoring his affiliation.
(multiple times ). Repenting does you no good as they were winners!
Anyway sin is nothing more than just common sense. Are we not by nature all sinners and does that sin nature ever really leave us? The answer, no it never does ... what’s more, it has infiltrated the world with the devil in the lead. Take a good Look around, and tell me if we who walk the earth are not corrupt? Christ tells the rich young man, Why do you call me good...none save God is good.” He was right on the spot ( Spot On ) as the Brits say.
I'm watching the NY GAME now. It is strange with an empty stadium. But not as strange as I expected.
Problem is with this season who really cares. I feel like I'm watching Spring training.
I had a Yingling Light ... 99 calories ... same kinda disappointment.
Well, Michelob Ultra still stands between your beverage and water....
II. Confessed and forsaken sin and mercy.
1. “Whoso confesseth and forsaketh them.” Prompt confession, followed by prompt forgiveness. Confession involving forsaking. Profession attended with consistent practice. The reform of the outward life, and the healing of the soul.
2. “Shall have mercy.” This is not a subject of doubt. It was the experience of the psalmist (Psalms 32:5). The apostle believed and taught it (Romans 4:5). John has put it beyond speculation (1 John 1:8-9). Mercy is yours if you will fulfil the conditions. (J. E. Hargreaves.)
Man’s treatment of his own sins
1. All men have sins.
2. All men have something to do with their sins.
3. All men deal with their sins either foolishly or wisely.
I. The foolish treatment of our sins. “He that covereth his sins.”
1. By denying them. Thus Cain, Rachel, Joseph’s brethren, Peter, Ananias and Sapphira, endeavoured to hide their sin.
2. By extenuating them. Men plead excuses.
3. By forgetting them. They endeavour to sweep them from the memory by revelry, by sensuality, worldliness, and intemperance. Sins must reveal themselves sooner or later.
II. The wise treatment of our sins. “Whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.” (D. Thomas, D.D.)
Unconfessed sins are not forgiven as they are ongoing.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
1. “Whoso confesseth and forsaketh them.” Prompt confession, followed by prompt forgiveness. Confession involving forsaking. Profession attended with consistent practice. The reform of the outward life, and the healing of the soul.
2. “Shall have mercy.” This is not a subject of doubt. It was the experience of the psalmist (Psalms 32:5). The apostle believed and taught it (Romans 4:5). John has put it beyond speculation (1 John 1:8-9). Mercy is yours if you will fulfil the conditions. (J. E. Hargreaves.)
Man’s treatment of his own sins
1. All men have sins.
2. All men have something to do with their sins.
3. All men deal with their sins either foolishly or wisely.
I. The foolish treatment of our sins. “He that covereth his sins.”
1. By denying them. Thus Cain, Rachel, Joseph’s brethren, Peter, Ananias and Sapphira, endeavoured to hide their sin.
2. By extenuating them. Men plead excuses.
3. By forgetting them. They endeavour to sweep them from the memory by revelry, by sensuality, worldliness, and intemperance. Sins must reveal themselves sooner or later.
II. The wise treatment of our sins. “Whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.” (D. Thomas, D.D.)
Unconfessed sins are not forgiven as they are ongoing.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
John Owen wrote a wonderful little book on this topic called The Mortification of Sin.
He asks "Do you mortify; do you make it your daily work; be always at it whilst you live; cease not a day from this work; be killing sin or it will be killing you."
I think that one issue Christians have with sin is that they (depending on their theology) view their sins as already being forgiven in the past and therefore not an issue in the present. That, of course, is a false theology. Peter speaks to believers, to those who do call God as Father, in this way:
"If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth".
The problem is, IMHO, that Christians have lost this fear of God. They slouch into His presence to offer a rote prayer and move on.
Christians need to be convicted, to actually be sorrowful over, the sin in their lives. But this is not enough. They have to repent. They have to destroy that sin in their life.
But what I see most often is professing Christians justifying their own sin, seeking their own vindication, and opposing anyone would dare to point out their wrongs. This is a part of "Church discipline" but it does not start there. It starts with Christians living for Christ and honestly engaging with other believers to uplift and encourage them to move from glory to glory ever increasingly being conformed into the image of Christ.
He asks "Do you mortify; do you make it your daily work; be always at it whilst you live; cease not a day from this work; be killing sin or it will be killing you."
I think that one issue Christians have with sin is that they (depending on their theology) view their sins as already being forgiven in the past and therefore not an issue in the present. That, of course, is a false theology. Peter speaks to believers, to those who do call God as Father, in this way:
"If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth".
The problem is, IMHO, that Christians have lost this fear of God. They slouch into His presence to offer a rote prayer and move on.
Christians need to be convicted, to actually be sorrowful over, the sin in their lives. But this is not enough. They have to repent. They have to destroy that sin in their life.
But what I see most often is professing Christians justifying their own sin, seeking their own vindication, and opposing anyone would dare to point out their wrongs. This is a part of "Church discipline" but it does not start there. It starts with Christians living for Christ and honestly engaging with other believers to uplift and encourage them to move from glory to glory ever increasingly being conformed into the image of Christ.
Joseph Benson's Commentary of the Old and New Testaments
Proverbs 28:13. He that covereth his sins — That does not confess them (as appears by the opposite clause) to God, and to men too, when occasion requires it: who,
being convinced or admonished of his sins, either justifies, or denies, or excuses them;
shall not prosper — Shall not succeed in his design of avoiding punishment by the concealment of his sins; shall not find mercy, as is implied from the next clause. But whoso confesseth and forsaketh them — From a sincere hatred to them, and a fixed and hearty resolution to walk in newness of life; shall have mercy — Both from God, who hath promised it, and from men, who are ready to grant pardon and favour to such persons. Observe well, reader: although the dissembling, or hiding of his sins, is sufficient for a man’s damnation, yet mere confession, without forsaking of sin, is not sufficient for his salvation.
Proverbs 28:13. He that covereth his sins — That does not confess them (as appears by the opposite clause) to God, and to men too, when occasion requires it: who,
being convinced or admonished of his sins, either justifies, or denies, or excuses them;
shall not prosper — Shall not succeed in his design of avoiding punishment by the concealment of his sins; shall not find mercy, as is implied from the next clause. But whoso confesseth and forsaketh them — From a sincere hatred to them, and a fixed and hearty resolution to walk in newness of life; shall have mercy — Both from God, who hath promised it, and from men, who are ready to grant pardon and favour to such persons. Observe well, reader: although the dissembling, or hiding of his sins, is sufficient for a man’s damnation, yet mere confession, without forsaking of sin, is not sufficient for his salvation.