freeatlast
New Member
atestring
then it should be no problem to come up with just one name, less you know you are wrong and too proud to admit it.
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Healings Today
- Thread starter New In Christ
- Start date
then it should be no problem to come up with just one name, less you know you are wrong and too proud to admit it.
atestring
then it should be no problem to come up with just one name, less you know you are wrong and too proud to admit it. </font>[/QUOTE]If I gave you a name you would not know the person. You would not accept the name I gave you.
If you are really sincere about knowing this then, why don't you go to 12 doctors (wheither they are born again or not) and ask them if they have ever seen anyone healed by the power of God since they have been practicing medicine. Ask them if there have been medical things that they do not understand but they can confirm that there was something rather than medicine that resulted in their healing.
freeatlast
New Member
atestring
then it should be no problem to come up with just one name, less you know you are wrong and too proud to admit it. </font>[/QUOTE]If I gave you a name you would not know the person. You would not accept the name I gave you.
If you are really sincere about knowing this then, why don't you go to 12 doctors (wheither they are born again or not) and ask them if they have ever seen anyone healed by the power of God since they have been practicing medicine. Ask them if there have been medical things that they do not understand but they can confirm that there was something rather than medicine that resulted in their healing. </font>[/QUOTE]atestring,
I will accept the name IF the person can really do it, but you know full well they cannot. As to going to a doctor for evidence I need not do that. I have seen the Lord heal, but there is no one with the gift to heal today. If I am wrong give me the name and contact information. Just one. I think you know full well that they would be shown up as a fake. Those who had the gift could heal at will. No one today can do that, no one!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Brian - that is a "story" not a Bible based doctrine.
Ephesians 4 makes it clear that these gifts continue until the return of Christ.
There is no text in all of scripture that says "the Bible is not yet finished" or "Scripture is not yet finished - but as soon as scripture is canonized no more spiritual gifts".
These texts are "needed" by some views - but are not actually in the Bible.
In Christ,
Bob
Free at last,
If you have seen The Lord heal then Praise God.
I have seen many healings. I must have missed a point somewhere because I believe in healing and it sounds like you do also.
It sounds like you would agree that healings have not ceased. As for everyone getting healed in all cases we know that Jesus didn't get em all healed . In one town he could do no mighty miracles there because of their unbelief except he healed a few sick folk.
Unbelief is a factor and i know people get up in arms everytime this is mentioned but that was the case in Jesus ministry and it cannot be ignored.
That does not mean that the gift of healing has ceased. The price has been paid for healing and to have healing there must be faith on the part of the sick person as well as the person operating in the gift.
If you have seen The Lord heal then Praise God.
I have seen many healings. I must have missed a point somewhere because I believe in healing and it sounds like you do also.
It sounds like you would agree that healings have not ceased. As for everyone getting healed in all cases we know that Jesus didn't get em all healed . In one town he could do no mighty miracles there because of their unbelief except he healed a few sick folk.
Unbelief is a factor and i know people get up in arms everytime this is mentioned but that was the case in Jesus ministry and it cannot be ignored.
That does not mean that the gift of healing has ceased. The price has been paid for healing and to have healing there must be faith on the part of the sick person as well as the person operating in the gift.
Paul of Eugene
New Member
Good answer, Briquy. If we look at the miracles in the Bible, they don't all come all the time. Instead, they are found in critical periods of Biblical history.
1) Moses and the delivery from Egypt: plagues, splitting water, etc etc
2) The rising apostocy in Israel: Elijah and Elisha; healings, even a raising from the dead
3) Daniel and the lions den thing - Captivity, and the great challenge to faith for that time
4) The starting of Christianity.
I'd like to see another set of miracles come as a testimony before the end of the world and the return of Christ, but of course that isn't up to me.
Divine providence is really there and I accept it as a kind of miracle; I've seen God provide when needed in unexpected ways but there was no violation of the laws of physics involved, such as would be required to multiply the loaves and fishes or raise someone from the dead.
1) Moses and the delivery from Egypt: plagues, splitting water, etc etc
2) The rising apostocy in Israel: Elijah and Elisha; healings, even a raising from the dead
3) Daniel and the lions den thing - Captivity, and the great challenge to faith for that time
4) The starting of Christianity.
I'd like to see another set of miracles come as a testimony before the end of the world and the return of Christ, but of course that isn't up to me.
Divine providence is really there and I accept it as a kind of miracle; I've seen God provide when needed in unexpected ways but there was no violation of the laws of physics involved, such as would be required to multiply the loaves and fishes or raise someone from the dead.
Brian - that is a "story" not a Bible based doctrine.
Ephesians 4 makes it clear that these gifts continue until the return of Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]EPH 2:20 * And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 * In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
The Body of Believers is the building placed upon the foundation that was laid by the Apostles and Prophets. The foundation is complete Apostles and Prophets are no longer needed.
How many volumes does your "Bible" consist of? What has been added since the end of the first century?
1 Cor. 13;8-13
Paul and Carl, thank you very much for your posts. They were direct and practical. I love the verse from Eph. where it says "foundations". That is so powerful because we see plans for the building of "the body of Christ". It starts with a base layer of the Apostles and the Prophets, which includes their ministries. We know that every building to stand must have a rock solid foundation and that is why God built the "body" on the mighty works and wisdom of the Apostles and the revelations of the Prophets.
Atestring, Carol and others. I am not sure why you insist on saying you believe in healings, like we don't. We, I hope I speak for Paul, Carl, DHK, etc...all believe that God can heal whomever he wants, whenever he wants and does heal once in a while. We just say that as a gift, used by the believer, the same way helps, governments, etc..., are used, is gone. I can't stress that enough.
Paul of Eugene made a incredible point about miracles, that also touches healings. We don't see today those type of miracles that defy laws of physics and just flat out paralize us with awe. Walking on water for an example. A new limb just growing out of a persons stump. A man dead for days just standing up at the persons command. Lots of food coming out of a little container. No, God can do any of that and has, we are not in a time where those type of miracles are being performed and so we know the gift to do so is gone and God is not doing miracles through anybody either (Of the type mentioned).
To whomever said that Jesus could NOT HEAL ALL, I say WHAT?????? Sorry, trying to make a point. Jesus is God and certainly could have done whatever He wanted. Jesus chose not to do miracles or healings by HIS choosing. He cose to because of the spiritual state and hardness of the audience.
Well, I stop rambling for now.
In Christian Love,
Brian
Atestring, Carol and others. I am not sure why you insist on saying you believe in healings, like we don't. We, I hope I speak for Paul, Carl, DHK, etc...all believe that God can heal whomever he wants, whenever he wants and does heal once in a while. We just say that as a gift, used by the believer, the same way helps, governments, etc..., are used, is gone. I can't stress that enough.
Paul of Eugene made a incredible point about miracles, that also touches healings. We don't see today those type of miracles that defy laws of physics and just flat out paralize us with awe. Walking on water for an example. A new limb just growing out of a persons stump. A man dead for days just standing up at the persons command. Lots of food coming out of a little container. No, God can do any of that and has, we are not in a time where those type of miracles are being performed and so we know the gift to do so is gone and God is not doing miracles through anybody either (Of the type mentioned).
To whomever said that Jesus could NOT HEAL ALL, I say WHAT?????? Sorry, trying to make a point. Jesus is God and certainly could have done whatever He wanted. Jesus chose not to do miracles or healings by HIS choosing. He cose to because of the spiritual state and hardness of the audience.
Well, I stop rambling for now.
In Christian Love,
Brian
New In Christ
New Member
Posted by Briguy,
Please, understand, I'm not in a period of doubting God or anything, nor do I honestly think God is "dangling us on a string," as I illustrated earlier. But, I often hear the complaint that, aside from going to heaven, what's the practical benefit of following God here? (To me, just going to Heaven is a HUGE benefit, but I'm highlighting others' statements.) After all, as many will point out, He doesn't heal anymore (at least not as a gift that can be depended on), His will seems arbitrary, and many will say praying has not helped them. They say they are no better off than when they were unsaved. It's as if they got saved and God left them until they die to go to heaven.
When I hear such complaints from fellow believers who are having a rough time, all I can seem to come up with is some lame response that God allows us to go through affairs of life to promote patience and character.
It's just that the healings issue is a practical point where the power of God can intersect peoples' lives. But it's also representative of a larger issue of experiencing the presence, power, and sufficiency of God.
Thank you. Theologically, I could deal with this. The practical difficulty is that it almost makes God look like He's dangling us on a string, as if He's willing to extend benefits to get our attention, but once we accept the Gospel, He pulls the rug out.
Please, understand, I'm not in a period of doubting God or anything, nor do I honestly think God is "dangling us on a string," as I illustrated earlier. But, I often hear the complaint that, aside from going to heaven, what's the practical benefit of following God here? (To me, just going to Heaven is a HUGE benefit, but I'm highlighting others' statements.) After all, as many will point out, He doesn't heal anymore (at least not as a gift that can be depended on), His will seems arbitrary, and many will say praying has not helped them. They say they are no better off than when they were unsaved. It's as if they got saved and God left them until they die to go to heaven.
When I hear such complaints from fellow believers who are having a rough time, all I can seem to come up with is some lame response that God allows us to go through affairs of life to promote patience and character.
It's just that the healings issue is a practical point where the power of God can intersect peoples' lives. But it's also representative of a larger issue of experiencing the presence, power, and sufficiency of God.
Remember the flesh profiteth nothing. Don't concern yourselves with who or what can kill the body but with who can kill body and soul. Jesus Christ emphasizes the spiritual healings over physical healings. Satan has the ability to deceive people by the "great" signs and wonders he does. True healing or the healing that really only matters is to have our "eyes" opened so that we can know Him. Have our "ears" opened so that we can hear His voice. Have our "feet" healed so that we can walk in His way. Have our "hands" healed so that we can worship Him.
Paul of Eugene
New Member
When I ponder the bad things that happen on earth there are three truths I wrest from Scripture about this:
1. We can trust the Wisdom of God that all things will be worked out rightly in the end.
2. Heaven is coming - we will have great rewards, though we must be patient for now.
3. God Himself, instead of removing our pain and sorrows, comes down and Himself participates fully in all our pain and sorrows through the death of Jesus on the cross.
1. We can trust the Wisdom of God that all things will be worked out rightly in the end.
2. Heaven is coming - we will have great rewards, though we must be patient for now.
3. God Himself, instead of removing our pain and sorrows, comes down and Himself participates fully in all our pain and sorrows through the death of Jesus on the cross.
countrybaptist
New Member
Hope this thread hasn't died off yet. I, too, am a cessanist. But, I've read and heard some say that the only way to prove healings can occur is to bring forth someone who can heal 100% of the time, or on command. Of course, I don't know that anyone has ever or will ever pass this test.
My point is this, even the disciples could not heal the leper (Don't have a bible handy to quote the verse). If the disciples could not even heal 100% of the time, then this argument or test would not be the correct one to apply. Only Jesus Christ healed on command, 100% of the time. I believe if a man or woman could, then he/she would be a god. obvioulsy impossible. Only Jesus Christ was/is/will be the perfect man.
Brian
My point is this, even the disciples could not heal the leper (Don't have a bible handy to quote the verse). If the disciples could not even heal 100% of the time, then this argument or test would not be the correct one to apply. Only Jesus Christ healed on command, 100% of the time. I believe if a man or woman could, then he/she would be a god. obvioulsy impossible. Only Jesus Christ was/is/will be the perfect man.
Brian
That is not what I have been saying Brian. None of the Apostles had the power to heal 100% of the people, 100% of the time. Paul couldn't heal himself, neither could he heal Timothy, or Trophimus. But there were times in both his ministry and in Peter's and in the other Apostle's ministries where they were able to heal all that came to them. That never happens--not even one time in any faith healer's lifetime of this day and age. In all of modern day history this kind of healing has never taken place. Why? The gift of healing has ceased. It like the other sign gifts such as tongues have ceased.
DHK
Just a quick side note. I believe Paul could have healed himself but would not. I also believe that those who had the gift could heal ALL when they were exercising the gift. What I mean is that praying for a healing was different then using the gift. Peter didn't pray the crippled man be healed he just told him to walk. Paul prayed to God about his thorn. These are two different things. Remember all gifts operate the same way.
NIC, I know what you are saying and I wish there were gifted healers all over forwarding the gospel and growing the church. That would be awesome. However, God must see things differently then you and I and I have to trust He knows best, whether I understand or not and often I really don't understand His ways. Take care,
a friend in Christ,
Brian
NIC, I know what you are saying and I wish there were gifted healers all over forwarding the gospel and growing the church. That would be awesome. However, God must see things differently then you and I and I have to trust He knows best, whether I understand or not and often I really don't understand His ways. Take care,
a friend in Christ,
Brian
tamborine lady
Active Member
Hey Hey Hey, I'm baaack!!
So, free at last; you said:
if you would please give me just one name and address or phone number of someone who has the gift of healing today. They have to be able to heal at will every time to have the gift. That was the gift in the NT church.By the way I would settle for just 1% of the time, but there is none. Those who claim they can have all been proven false over and over, but I will change my mind if you can give me one who can prove it. The gift has passed away unless you can prove otherwise by providing someone who can do it.
"they have to be able to heal at will every time to have the gift"
If you are going to believe that then I want you to give me scripture to back it up!!
Where is it???
Working for Jesus,
Tam,
