quantumfaith
Active Member
And HOW does one know when they reached this vaunted position of being a bible scholar? Must one have a certain ACT or SAT score in Bible?
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hearers/doers
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And HOW does one know when they reached this vaunted position of being a bible scholar? Must one have a certain ACT or SAT score in Bible?
preacher4truth
Active Member
The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 1 Timothy 5:17
If the passages presented above are meant to malign those who labor in study of the Word, and do so in what they consider a scholarly, theological fashion, in devotion to God, Holiness, and to knowing Him in a greater way, or anyone within this thread for whatever reason due to their opinions, or love of study then sobeit. It, if be the case, is an example of being disobedient to the Word in 1 Timothy 5:17.
To cast an accusation upon such, that they are claiming wisdom (which none have) or to be "wise thereby" due to said devotion to God and theological study (which is unfounded and untrue) and which is not in the least claimed, is shameful.
If this is the objective of above quoted reply in this thread, then this is presented in a most uncharitable, ingracious, and unwise manner.
- Peace and Grace to His
No, these verses are to remind some here that being wise in their own eyes is foolish. If you think you are a better Christian than others because you have read books by theologians you are in for a big surprise. Theologians are men just like any other and are often in error. For every theologian that posits a point of view or interpretation of scripture, you can find ten who disagree.
Not everybody in the body of Christ is the brain. But the brain needs the other members of the body to survive. If you were really scholars you would already know that and not say such ridiculous things about Christians who are not scholars.
Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Read the scriptures, who did Jesus call hypocrites? It was the scholars of his day, the scribes and Pharisees, the "learned men". They were often in error as Jesus repeatedly pointed out. They were arrogant and thought themselves better than the common man. Things are still the same today.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Are they also to remind you? Or just others? If only for others, I'd be paying great attention to Proverbs 16:18 if I were you.
- Peace
I have not criticized those Christians who are not great scholars, show where I have ever done that.
I have a friend in church, he is pretty smart and knows the scriptures, but no one would call him a scholar, nor does he pretend to be. But he goes out week after week in a bus and picks up kids from all over town and brings them to church. Many dozens of these kids have accepted Christ and now have eternal life. Not bad for a simple guy.
Sitting in your room reading books is of little value to others. Those that go out and bring others in so that they can hear the word of God and be saved are of far more value than scholars.
Some folks clean the church, or mow the lawn. They cook meals. They go out and bring disabled folks to church. They are not scholars, but if not for them the church would be disorganized and in shambles. From my observation, not too many scholars are willing to push a lawnmower or rake some leaves, wash dishes, or bring food for functions. They are far too important in their own mind to do such trivial things.
If it doesn't have to be behind a pulpit then it doesn't necessarily have to be scholarly.
A great fallacy. Many "unscholarly" people have influenced many others for Christ. I was a Catholic for 20 years and didn't know beans about the Bible--Biblically illiterate. The day after I was saved I was out at the university campus knocking at their doors telling them about Christ. I still didn't know much about the Bible. But I did know this--Christ saved me; Christ can save you. I had my testimony to share. That is what Christ called us to be--witnesses not scholars. Read Acts 1:8. The early believers in Acts 8:4 "went every where preaching the word." That was only a few days after Pentecost. They weren't the apostles. The apostles remained in Jerusalem. Your view in not Biblical. There is such a thing as discipleship.
Every "scholar" ought to be doing the same thing. Press on toward perfection. You haven't reached there yet.
Then we should all remain silent??
Every saved person can at least share their testimony with others. No believer is completely ignorant.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Corinthians 1:19-21)
preacher4truth
Active Member
To be fair, if anyone is mocking ones intellectual level, then let them answer for themselves.
Can you show me where I've said you've criticized Christians who are not great scholars? Nothing within my quote reflects this.
Let's not get off on some rabbit trail, you know I've never said this. I am simply responding to your statements against those whom you deem to be claiming to be wise, who haven't.
The intent of your verse list was for this group.
What does the Bible say, winman, about respecting thsoe who labor in the Word? To malign? To disrepect? To react with cynicism? Or to give them double honor?
Surely if you can honor those of an lower intellect (by your implication) you can also obey Scriptures to honor those that study, who happen to be gifted with a higher understanding, can't you?
Now again:
Are they also to remind you? Or just others? If only for others, I'd be paying great attention to Proverbs 16:18 if I were you.
- Peace
Give me a break, several in this thread have insinuated that folks who are not scholars are some sort of lower class Christian. One person said this:
Wow! Do you agree with this? Do you think it is more sinful not to be a scholar or to be a pedophile? What about a murderer? How about a habitual thief? But according to this person, if you are not a scholar of the word of God you are the lowest scum on the face of the earth. Of course, he considers himself a true scholar, he is the best and highest form of Christian you can be!
What kills me is that you guys aren't even aware how insulting you are!
And then you get bent out of shape when someone shows the many verses of scripture that warns Christians against being wise in their own conceits. Amazing, for such smart people you are oblivious to the obvious.
And any true Bible scholar would know these warnings and not say such ridiculous insults against those Christians who are not as scholarly as they "believe" themselves to be.
Wow! Do you agree with this? Do you think it is more sinful not to be a scholar or to be a pedophile? What about a murderer? How about a habitual thief? But according to this person, if you are not a scholar of the word of God you are the lowest scum on the face of the earth. Of course, he considers himself a true scholar, he is the best and highest form of Christian you can be!
What kills me is that you guys aren't even aware how insulting you are!
And then you get bent out of shape when someone shows the many verses of scripture that warns Christians against being wise in their own conceits. Amazing, for such smart people you are oblivious to the obvious.
And any true Bible scholar would know these warnings and not say such ridiculous insults against those Christians who are not as scholarly as they "believe" themselves to be.
quantumfaith
Active Member
:applause::applause::applause:
preacher4truth
Active Member
Have I said this? Claimed this? If you're mad at a brother, get right about it.
Answer the questions,
Are the verses for you also, or only for others?
No need to get bent, just answer.
Scripture applies to me just as well as any other person. But I have not accused non-scholars of the word of God as being the worst sinners on earth.
You are attempting to turn this around on me. It is those that have made these insulting remarks that are worthy of rebuke. You have not been as insulting as this one person has, but you made condescending remarks like this:
I am not convinced that your heart is really broken. I take this as a very condescending remark.
No, you guys think you are BETTER than other Christians.
quantumfaith
Active Member
The verses are to remind ALL of us to be careful with pride, a dangerous thing.
preacher4truth
Active Member
:thumbsup:
preacher4truth
Active Member
What does the Bible, not Winman, say about honoring those who labour in the word?
- Peace
quantumfaith
Active Member
This is a little off track, Winman was addressing, if I remember correctly the charge that if you are not a theologian it is a great sin. It seems by that earlier claim that we then should all go to seminary and become professional theologians. Winman brought out plainly, some Jesus's most harsh criticisms were aimed at the "theologians" of the day. Yes, we should "study to show ourselves approved" (all of us) but also Paul was talking to a young and developing pastor. Pastors have a greater responsibility to "rightly" divide the truth for the sheep entrusted to them, that is not to say that the "rest of us" (mere theological mortals) are given a free pass to "butcher" the word.
I think Winman is trying to communicate that a right heart toward God, and personal study time in the word, qualifies one to speak of christian doctrine and teaching.
Oh, I agree, but that is not what I have seen demonstrated here. I see persons stating their own opinion without one verse of scripture to support it. Where does the Bible say that failing to be a scholar of the word of God is the greatest sin of all?
1 Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
God has given each Christian their own gift. Not everyone is intended to be a teacher or a scholar.
Years ago at a church in Florida I used to attend our pastor preached on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He said; "I really don't need any prophets or faith healers around here, but I can use all the "helps" I can get!"
As I said, a true Bible scholar would know that there are diversities of gifts of the Spirit and that not all Christians are given the gift of being a teacher.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Whomever makes such a charge is incorrect. We're not all the head.
But making a list of verses against those that are scholarly, is against Scripture. Not all are of the ilk that others of lesser degree are worthless.
To lump me in with those that say this is clearly wrong. I've never stated such, nor do I support it.
- Peace
preacher4truth
Active Member
Cool. Don't lump me automatically in with the group you seek to rebuke. To do so is unwarranted.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Would anyone by any standard consider Rahab the harlot a "scholar?" Of course not.
But what does scripture say of her:
Hebrews 11:31 NIV
By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.
James 2:25 NIV
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?
But what does scripture say of her:
Hebrews 11:31 NIV
By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.
James 2:25 NIV
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?
I cannot believe what I just read. If I am not a bible scholar, I am just unlearned and need to keep silent??
Maybe with all your education you forgot that Christ commanded all Christians to spread the gospel. How can I do that if I must remain silent? Jesus didn't say get your doctorate in theology and THEN go spread the gospel!
When you are witnessing to a dying person, drug addict, prison inmate or regular sinner on the street, they do not care about your credentials. They need God's love and our job is to tell them about our Savior, Jesus Christ and how He died for them. I do not need a phd to tell them about the salvation that is freely offered to them in Christ OR share my own testimony of salvation with them.
Keep silent? That is the death of Christianity.
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