Heaven Or Hell?

[kyredneck]

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with Jehovah his God, as was the heart of David his father. 1 Ki 11

Indication is that he died unrepentant, yet he penned a significant portion of holy writ and is in the direct lineage of Jesus Christ.

FYI, I've conversed with several from other denominations in the past that insist there's no way he could be in heaven.

 

[revmwc]

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with Jehovah his God, as was the heart of David his father. 1 Ki 11

Indication is that he died unrepentant, yet he penned a significant portion of holy writ and is in the direct lineage of Jesus Christ.

FYI, I've conversed with several from other denominations in the past that insist there's no way he could be in heaven.

Solomon is on the direct lineage of Joseph who was the step father of Jesus. Jesus's line through Mary was through David's son Nathan

 

[kyredneck]

Solomon is on the direct lineage of Joseph who was the step father of Jesus. Jesus's line through Mary was through David's son Nathan

OK, thank you, I stand corrected on that point.

 

[Greektim]

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with Jehovah his God, as was the heart of David his father. 1 Ki 11

Indication is that he died unrepentant, yet he penned a significant portion of holy writ and is in the direct lineage of Jesus Christ.

FYI, I've conversed with several from other denominations in the past that insist there's no way he could be in heaven.

"Significant portion" as in importance or length? B/c I don't think he wrote all that much, if anything. Many proverbs he spoke. But who wrote them down and then later compiled and arranged them? Not Solomon. And I don't think he wrote Ecclesiastes. But even if he did, would that still be considered a "significant portion" in any sense? So not much is left.

 

[kyredneck]

"Significant portion" as in importance or length? B/c I don't think he wrote all that much, if anything. Many proverbs he spoke. But who wrote them down and then later compiled and arranged them? Not Solomon. And I don't think he wrote Ecclesiastes. But even if he did, would that still be considered a "significant portion" in any sense? So not much is left.

Ok. Did you vote?

 

[Greektim]

No... b/c that is a question that the Bible doesn't care to answer. And I don't believe it is a question we are to focus upon too much.

Solomon was a type of Jesus as well as having a very important place in salvation history (HUGE really). But that is the point of Solomon, to connect him to Jesus, not to see if he went to heaven or hell.

 

[kyredneck]

No... b/c that is a question that the Bible doesn't care to answer.

43 And Solomon slept with his fathers...... 1 Ki 11

You see any significance in that statement?

 

[Greektim]

No since it is said of all the kings.

 

[kyredneck]

No since it is said of all the kings.

Samuel to Saul:

19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Sam 28

Any significance to you there?

 

[revmwc]

OK, thank you, I stand corrected on that point.

Knew it was inadvertent still in the line of David

 

[revmwc]

Samuel to Saul:

19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Sam 28

Any significance to you there?

Saul was originally a strong man of God. He let sin in his life and God took him and removed the Kingdom from him. But he and his sons like David and Solomon are in Heaven today

 

[kyredneck]

43 And Solomon slept with his fathers...... 1 Ki 11

You see any significance in that statement?

No since it is said of all the kings.

Samuel to Saul:

19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Sam 28

Any significance to you there?

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham`s bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Lu 16

Does this not teach different destinations for the righteous and the wicked during the OT?

 

[Greektim]

Samuel to Saul:

19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Sam 28

Any significance to you there?

I tried to avoid this, but now I have to.

I am not a neo-platonic thinker. Neither were the writers of Scripture. For Saul to be w/ the dead Samuel is not to be in either heaven or hell but rather with the dead and awaiting the resurrection from the dead.

So I don't find the significance you are looking for b/c I try to adjust my world view to fit the that of the writers who didn't think in terms of heaven vs hell but rather death vs life.

 

[kyredneck]

Saul was originally a strong man of God. He let sin in his life...

As did Solomon.

 

[kyredneck]

I tried to avoid this...

Lol, why? I'm not out to beat up on you, you're always one that I enjoy having a dialogue with.

Did you see post #12?

 

[Greektim]

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham`s bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Lu 16

Does this not teach different destinations for the righteous and the wicked during the OT?

Doesn't this passage actually prove that Saul could be with Samuel and still not be in heaven but endure torment? Just like Lazarus could be with Abraham and in torment?

The point is, they thought in terms of life and death as well as hades/sheol the place of the dead.

 

[Greektim]

Lol, why? I'm not out to beat up on you, you're always one that I enjoy having a dialogue with.

Did you see post #12?

Very kind of you.

I don't think people know or realize how much of their theology has been influenced by new-platonic thought. I didn't either... for a while. So when you point it out, you attack their deeply held (yet wildly assumed) world view. And it usually doesn't end well.

 

[revmwc]

Doesn't this passage actually prove that Saul could be with Samuel and still not be in heaven but endure torment? Just like Lazarus could be with Abraham and in torment?

The point is, they thought in terms of life and death as well as hades/sheol the place of the dead.

The thing is that Jesus taught of a great gulf fixed between the two abodes. Specifically saying to prevent the crossing over between the two.

 

[Greektim]

The thing is that Jesus taught of a great gulf fixed between the two abodes. Specifically saying to prevent the crossing over between the two.

But as it relates to this discussion... both the righteous and the wicked were in the same place (divided yet the same place nonetheless). They were in the place of the dead... i.e. hades. They were awaiting resurrection. So not "two abodes" but 1 abode (hades) divided. Thus Saul could be with Samuel yet one be righteous and the other wicked.

 

[kyredneck]

Doesn't this passage actually prove that Saul could be with Samuel and still not be in heaven but endure torment? Just like Lazarus could be with Abraham and in torment?

This is a little confusing to me the way you worded it. I suppose it's all in what one wants to take from it. I see a place of comfort (paradise?) and a place of torment, BEFORE the cross.