Hebrews 12:22-23

[agedman]

Van,

No one is enrolled before they become members, and no one's name was written before the foundation of the world, rather names by inference were written since the foundation of the world.

Ever heard of the draft?

One was selected and ordered to report BEFORE taking the oath of service were they not?

 

[InTheLight]

Let me present an alternate scenario, just for the sake of argument.

Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." OK, we are going to have a place in Heaven. We will have a house in heaven, a heavenly "address". When will we be enrolled into that heavenly address? When we first believe is there a place reserved for us in Heaven with our name on it? Or do we get that space reserved for us when we die and actually go to Heaven?

The writer in Hebrews is talking about going to New Jerusalem. The people in these verses were 'enrolled in heaven". That could be an entirely different thing than having your name written in the Lamb's book of Life. Or it could be the same thing.

 

[agedman]

Let me present an alternate scenario, just for the sake of argument.

Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." OK, we are going to have a place in Heaven. We will have a house in heaven, a heavenly "address". When will we be enrolled into that heavenly address? When we first believe is there a place reserved for us in Heaven with our name on it? Or do we get that space reserved for us when we die and actually go to Heaven?

The writer in Hebrews is talking about going to New Jerusalem. The people in these verses were 'enrolled in heaven". That could be an entirely different thing than having your name written in the Lamb's book of Life. Or it could be the same thing.

Interesting.

How then does one posses a "place for you" that is preprepared unless that person is already enrolled?

Are there vacancies in some apartments because that person did not enroll themself?

Or are there no vacancies in the apartments because "all the Father gives to me will come to me" ?

Does the Scripture state that names are added after the book was written "at the foundations of the world?"

 

[loDebar]

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

It has been asserted that the timing of when those who are enrolled in heaven cannot be discerned. Let us consider the evidence. Where are we talking about? The "heavenly Jerusalem" in which we have the living God, angels and "the general assembly" which is church of the firstborn, either referring to Christ as the firstborn, or to the assembly of those belonging to Christ.

When are people enrolled as members of your church, before they become members or when they become members? When they become members! When we are born anew, we become spiritual children of God, and siblings of Christ. Thus we are enrolled in heaven when we are born anew. Thus since creation, after we lived without mercy, and then were called into His marvelous light. The church is comprised of all those called out.

Another line of evidence is we are made alive together with Christ, thus when transferred into the kingdom of His Son, and having been made alive it follows our names would be entered or enrolled in the Lamb's book of life.

He is speaking to Hebrews who are recently Saved, He is showing that Jesus is better than Judaism or the Law which thet were accustomed, V22 and 23 are descriptions of their salvation.

Read the chapter and not individuals verses

Names are blotted out of the Lambs Book of Life.

Psa 69:28

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

You are all condemned, God is giving us a chance to not blot names from the Book of the Living.. But the names will be if we do not repent.

 

[Van]

Has scripture been referenced that precludes names being written before the foundation of world? Yes, Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8. Names, by inference, were written since the foundation of the world.

I was drafted, and I was enrolled in the Army, enlisted, when I joined the Army and not when my name was entered on the draft list. Lots of folks joined the Navy, got married, got a college deferment, and otherwise avoided Army enlistment.

It was claimed people might be enrolled in heaven but not written in the Lamb's book of life. Nonsense. There is no other way, Jesus is the way, the only way.

And note the pattern, the OP is claimed to be wrong, but no alternative view is supported with scripture.

Since the inauguration of the New Covenant, the bible clearly teaches names are entered in the Lamb's book of life when they are spiritually placed in Christ and are made perfect. Hebrews 12:22-23

 

[Van]

He is speaking to Hebrews who are recently Saved, He is showing that Jesus is better than Judaism or the Law which thet were accustomed, V22 and 23 are descriptions of their salvation.

Read the chapter and not individuals verses

Names are blotted out of the Lambs Book of Life.

Psa 69:28

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

You are all condemned, God is giving us a chance to not blot names from the Book of the Living.. But the names will be if we do not repent.

Psalms 69:28 is not referring to the Lamb's book of life. Names entered in the Lamb's book of life are never blotted out. Revelation 3:5

 

[InTheLight]

It was claimed people might be enrolled in heaven but not written in the Lamb's book of life. Nonsense. There is no other way, Jesus is the way, the only way.

No, I presented a possible scenario whereby being written in the Lamb's book of Life was one thing and being enrolled in New Jerusalem was another thing. Obviously both happen. You don't get written in the Lamb's book of life and not get enrolled in New Jerusalem.

And note the pattern, the OP is claimed to be wrong, but no alternative view is supported with scripture.

No scripture is presented that clearly shows your view in the OP.

Since the inauguration of the New Covenant, the bible clearly teaches names are entered in the Lamb's book of life when they are spiritually placed in Christ and are made perfect. Hebrews 12:22-23

No. Scripture says the names are written in the Lamb's book of life "from the foundation of the world" [KJV] [NKJV] [NASB] [WEB] or "from the creation of the world" [NIV]

 

[loDebar]

Psalms 69:28 is not referring to the Lamb's book of life. Names entered in the Lamb's book of life are never blotted out. Revelation 3:5

NLT Psalms 69:28
Erase their names from the Book of Life;
don’t let them be counted among the righteous

NIV May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

YLT They are blotted out of the book of life, And with the righteous are not written.

I think it s book of life and what I say stands.

Rev 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

All names were in the Book of Life when created and removed when we reject and offering of patron and are considered DEAD

 

[Van]

No, I presented a possible scenario whereby being written in the Lamb's book of Life was one thing and being enrolled in New Jerusalem was another thing. Obviously both happen. You don't get written in the Lamb's book of life and not get enrolled in New Jerusalem.

No scripture is presented that clearly shows your view in the OP.

No. Scripture says the names are written in the Lamb's book of life "from the foundation of the world" [KJV] [NKJV] [NASB] [WEB] or "from the creation of the world" [NIV]

1) We agree, when enrolled in heaven our names are in the Lamb's book of life.
2) Yes, they do. Names by inference are written since the foundation of the world and not before. People are enrolled in a group, church or assembly when they join and not before. People are made perfect when they are placed spiritually in Christ, when they are born anew. It is inescapable.

 

[Van]

NLT Psalms 69:28
Erase their names from the Book of Life;
don’t let them be counted among the righteous
NIV May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.
YLT They are blotted out of the book of life, And with the righteous are not written.

I think it s book of life and what I say stands.

Rev 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

All names were in the Book of Life when created and removed when we reject and offering of patron and are considered DEAD

Your problem is no names are blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Yet names are blotted of the OT book. To show the distinction, other translations have Psalms 69:28 reading "book of the living."
Also the verse refers to a separate "book of the righteous" which would be the same book it the reference was to the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Yeshua1]

1) We agree, when enrolled in heaven our names are in the Lamb's book of life.
2) Yes, they do. Names by inference are written since the foundation of the world and not before. People are enrolled in a group, church or assembly when they join and not before. People are made perfect when they are placed spiritually in Christ, when they are born anew. It is inescapable.

God chose us to get saved in and By Christ from eternity past, so when were our names put in there again?

 

[Van]

God chose us to get saved in and By Christ from eternity past, so when were our names put in there again?

Yet another fiction to support a fiction. Why are names by inference written in the Lamb's book of life since and not before the foundation of the world? No answer will be forthcoming. The answer is because all those born anew have been individually chosen and placed in Christ since the foundation of the world.We were chosen in Him corporately before the foundation of the world, therefore no names were written in Lamb's book of life before creation.

 

[loDebar]

Your problem is no names are blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Yet names are blotted of the OT book. To show the distinction, other translations have Psalms 69:28 reading "book of the living."

It is the same BOOK OF LIFE, LIVING or "chay"
verses posted and translations posted

It is חַי chay

It is living or life fresh, wild, appetite company congregation

Translated LIFE 144 times

You read what is posted

 

[Van]

It is the same BOOK
verses posted and translations posted

Why not address the rebuttal? Why two books if it is the Lamb's book of life. Why are names blotted out with if names are never blotted out. Verses and translations posted.

 

[loDebar]

Yet another fiction to support a fiction. Why are names by inference written in the Lamb's book of life since and not before the foundation of the world? No answer will be forthcoming. The answer is because all those born anew have been individually chosen and placed in Christ since the foundation of the world.We were chosen in Him corporately before the foundation of the world, therefore no names were written in Lamb's book of life before creation.

The names were written before the world, when you were created by God.

The Lamb was slain not before in time but in from t of , so all the world knows, Like a speaker in front of an audience

 

[loDebar]

Why not address the rebuttal? Why two books if it is the Lamb's book of life. Why are names blotted out with if names are never blotted out. Verses and translations posted.

I did, post verses, You names are not entered when you are saved, but are blotted our when you reject Him and accept sin.

This suggests a previous relationship as an alive being. We can be redeemed or reconciled to God.

 

[Van]

The names were written before the world, when you were created by God.

The Lamb was slain not before in time but in from t of , so all the world knows, Like a speaker in front of an audience

Scripture says since the foundation of the world not before.
The Lamb was slain since the foundation of the world about 2000 years ago.

 

[Van]

I did, post verses, You names are not entered when you are saved, but are blotted our when you reject Him and accept sin.

This suggests a previous relationship as an alive being. We can be redeemed or reconciled to God.

Why post the same bogus views. We are made alive together with Christ, thus when God puts us in Christ, and not before. Thus it follows we would be then numbered in the book of life. And again, scripture says names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Why two books if it is the Lamb's book of life. Why are names blotted out with if names are never blotted out.

 

[loDebar]

There is no verse of names being added to the Boo of Life. Just removed or blotted out

Rev 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Rev 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works

Rev 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Psa 69:28

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous

 

[loDebar]

Scripture says since the foundation of the world not before.
The Lamb was slain since the foundation of the world about 2000 years ago.

The world was made before that, He was slain so that ALL know who He was and What He did