Hebrews 6:4-6

[Brother Bob]

agree with you LeBuick;
That is why I tell everyone you must take Rev with the rest of the Bible especially what Jesus spoke to be able to understand it at all. The same is true with the rest of the Bible. Its ironic that all those who translated the Bible of the NT into English agree with me. Its the modern Greek scholars that are giving conflict. What scares me is how we have lived and preached all these years and now to have some tell us that it was wrong when very intelligent men like Strongs, Geneva, KJV of which the King picked I think it was 7 or more Professors to translate the Bible. I doubt if those fellows were unlearned and just played fast and loose with the translations. I suppose they spent their lives translating the Bible. I for one believe God had a hand in it and the message came through. I will continue on preaching what I always have. May be a few things I won't stress as much but I am not going to change now when the Bible says He that lacketh wisdom let him ask of God. Well I have done that over and over. You know LeBuick, I learned a long time ago the first Bible course I took in college that it all depends on which college you go to that determines the belief you have on certain subjects when you finish that course. Some of the teachers were a joke.
Quote:
Also just as silly, is you trying to tell me who King James is.

What I think is a hoot, is you uphold Strongs, yet you do not own his book. If you had his book Bob, you may understand.

You uphold KJV...but you yet you post the wrong history.

You uphold TR , but in this case TR and all the other greek text agree.

You ask a greek guy down the road, and you will not allow all Bible Lexicons.

You are misreading the post James!

 

[Jarthur001]

Ok James but what about your friend and former Seminary Theologian teacher at SBC
Mr. A T Roberson?

Post what you want me to look at Bob, that shows if is in the text.

 

[Brother Bob]

So, you deny one of the the Seminary Theologians that was in the beginning of SBC of which you belong.
One of your own schools of theology

A.T. Robertson
Professor of New Testament Interpretation
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (1895-1934)

(God) gave a revelation to make it free from errors, I believe He first made it inerrant as He made nature so. Hence, I boldly hold that the analogy of nature is in favor of inerrancy of God's original scriptures. ...Why in the world is it that there is such a terrible contention by destructive higher critics? ...I think I can tell. The school wants to change the whole order... they wish to get an entering wedge by having it admit that there were inaccuracies... in order to shift and change the order of the Word to suit themselves.
--"The Relative Authority of Scripture and Reason"

If God permits." - eanper, "If indeed". The second particle used with the conditional particle emphasizes that the proposed action is in spite of opposition; i.e., "if in spite of his opposition God permits." "If indeed after all" (A. T. Robertson).


Apostasy, Falling Away from the Faith, Losing Salvation, Falling ...
A. T. Robertson

says that the preposition in compound adds to the force of the linear ... if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
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[Jarthur001]

ean.de (but if) kai (and) gameo (thou marry) oux.hamartano(thou didst not sin) kai (and) ean (if) gameo (may have married) ..............


But and IF thou marry thou hast not sinned and if a virgin marry she hath not sinned Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh but I spare you

May be funny but why do you have to switch the words and and if around?

It called greek Bob. It is wrote that way, we have to reorder it into our own grammer.

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh, you have to reorder it how you think it should go? I don't think Strong's does that but could be wrong.

If God permits." - eanper, "If indeed". The second particle used with the conditional particle emphasizes that the proposed action is in spite of opposition; i.e., "if in spite of his opposition God permits." "If indeed after all" (A. T. Robertson).


Apostasy, Falling Away from the Faith, Losing Salvation, Falling ...
A. T. Robertson

says that the preposition in compound adds to the force of the linear ... if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;


You see this James?

says that the preposition in compound adds to the force of the linear

He is saying this is a case where If is used in connection with the entire verse. That it adds to the force of the linear.

 

[Jarthur001]

So, you deny one of the the Seminary Theologians that was in the beginning of SBC of which you belong.
One of your own schools of theology

I don't know...we shall see.

(God) gave a revelation to make it free from errors

,
I agree...

I believe He first made it inerrant as He made nature so.

I agree

Hence, I boldly hold that the analogy of nature is in favor of inerrancy of God's original scriptures.

I agree. BTW Bob..maybe you should know this. Inerrancy is viewed in at least 4 levels. Just in case you did not know this. But..I hold to the highest level.

...Why in the world is it that there is such a terrible contention by destructive higher critics?

I agree...I'm not a "higher Critic and I have yet to meet one on the BB.

...I think I can tell. The school wants to change the whole order... they wish to get an entering wedge by having it admit that there were inaccuracies... in order to shift and change the order of the Word to suit themselves.

Well, this is one reason. But it goes way beyond this.

If God permits." - eanper, "If indeed". The second particle used with the conditional particle emphasizes that the proposed action is in spite of opposition; i.e., "if in spite of his opposition God permits." "If indeed after all" (A. T. Robertson).

If is this verse (ean)

Apostasy, Falling Away from the Faith, Losing Salvation, Falling ...
A. T. Robertson

This does not have "if" covered. But I want to say something else. Falling away does not have to mean apostasy. It can mean error of great sin. Now it also can mean apostasy.

says that the preposition in compound adds to the force of the linear ... if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

Your man hear is only reading the English text. He never addressed the word, only to read it as it is found in the KJV.

 

[Brother Bob]

Here is a renouned Seminary Theologian teacher, A T Robertson from the early SBC ,that says you have the conditionality to be implicit, so you can use "if", but you say it does not have the conditionality?

He continues on to use the entire verse James.

Let us now read this passage of scripture again with an informed understanding: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the age to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

 

[Jarthur001]

Oh, you have to reorder it how you think it should go? I don't think Strong's does that but could be wrong.

Do not act so foolish Bob. That is how you read it.

Let me write the English words in the order we find the Greek words.

But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if may have married the virgin not she did sin: but tribulation in the flesh shall have such: but I you spare.

This is how it would read if you left it in the Greek word order. Our gammer is not the same as Greek grammer.

 

[Brother Bob]

says that the preposition in compound adds to the force of the linear ... if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

What is the preposition he A T Robertson, SBC Seminary Theologian of times past is talking about James? It is "if", because "if" was the context of what he was talking about.

But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if may have married the virgin not she did sin: but tribulation in the flesh shall have such: but I you spare

Look how you messed up that Scripture James so it will fit your explanation. I don't think any tranlations have it that way. :laugh:

 

[Jarthur001]

He continues on to use the entire verse James.

Let us now read this passage of scripture again with an informed understanding: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the age to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Thats right Bob...he is reading the KJV. If you read the KJV it is in there. But it is not in the greek

 

[Jarthur001]

says that the preposition in compound adds to the force of the linear ... if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

What is the preposition he is talking about James? It is "if", because "if" was the context of what he was talking about.


Look how you messed up that Scripture James so it will fit your explanation. I don't think any tranlations have it that way. :laugh:

That is why we reorder it in the English Bob. Take it to your "greek buddy" and he will help you.

 

[Brother Bob]

That is why we reorder it in the English Bob. Take it to your "greek buddy" and he will help you.

Oh, more translators. Guess they didn't go to school under SBC Seminary Theologian teacher A T Robertson of times past.


Jauthor translated from Greek said; But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if may have married the virgin not she did sin: but tribulation in the flesh shall have such: but I you spare

Look how you messed up that Scripture James so it will fit your explanation. I don't think any tranlations have it that way. :laugh:
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[Jarthur001]

Oh, more translators. Guess they didn't go to school under SBC Seminary Theologian teacher A T Robertson of times past.


Jauthor translated from Greek said; But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if may have married the virgin not she did sin: but tribulation in the flesh shall have such: but I you spare

Look how you messed up that Scripture James so it will fit your explanation. I don't think any tranlations have it that way. :laugh:
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here is the greek text. You write it without changing the order of the words and see what you come up with.

(Greek NT - Textus Rec.) 1 Corinthians 7:28
ean de kai ghmhV ouc hmarteV kai ean ghmh h parqenoV ouc hmarten qliyin de th sarki exousin oi toioutoi egw de umwn feidomai
But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if may have married the virgin not she did sin: but tribulation in the flesh shall have such: but I you spare.

It reads like this...

But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if 3may 4have 5married 1the 2virgin not 6she 7did sin: but tribulation in the flesh 2shall 3have 1such: but I 2you 1spare

 

[Brother Bob]

No, one is enough James. Scripture says the virgin did not sin but you say she did, in your up-to-date Greek to English translation. :applause: :applause: :wavey: You trying to shut down this thread now too James?

 

[Jarthur001]

No, one is enough James. Scripture says the virgin did not sin but you say she did, in your up-to-date Greek to English translation. You trying to shut down this thread now too James?

Just come clean Bob, You have not a clue do you?

But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if 3may 4have 5married 1the 2virgin not 6she 7did sin: but tribulation in the flesh 2shall 3have 1such: but I 2you 1spare

 

[Brother Bob]

Just come clean Bob, You have not a clue do you?

But if and thou mayest have married, thou didst not sin; and if 3may 4have 5married 1the 2virgin not 6she 7did sin: but tribulation in the flesh 2shall 3have 1such: but I 2you 1spare

There is no way there was an English word for the whole verse but there is the conditionality of the entire phase which allows you to use certain words when translating Greek and I think you missed that part James for your translation don't make no since at all. You say "if may have married the virgin not, She did Sin."

It makes for a good laugh though James. I am not stupid enough to try and get into the translator business.

 

[Jarthur001]

There is no way there was an English word for the whole verse but there is the conditionality of the entire phase which allows you to use certain words when translating Greek and I think you missed that part James for your translation don't make no since at all. You say "if may have married the virgin not, She did Sin."

It makes for a good laugh though James. I am not stupid enough to try and get into the translator business.

Of course it didn't make sense Bob. That was the point. You asked "why did you change the order of the words. I said all translation change the order Bob. So I showed you by posting the words enchanged in the same order as the greek. This is why it does not make sense. Do you understand now???????

:BangHead:

 

[Brother Bob]

Of course it didn't make sense Bob. That was the point. You asked "why did you change the order of the words. I said all translation change the order Bob. So I showed you by posting the words in changed in the same order as the greek. This is why it does not make sense. Do you understand now???????

James, don't you know when you are out of your field?
Who does the deciding where to put what word.

This Greek translation becomes more and more odd!
The Greek in a direct translation says the virgin sinned.
How do you change it so the virgin don't sin James. Who knows how to change it so the virgin don't sin James?

 

[Jarthur001]

James, don't you know when you are out of your field?
Who does the deciding where to put what word.

This Greek translation becomes more and more odd!
The Greek in a direct translation says the virgin sinned.
How do you change it so the virgin don't sin James. Who knows how to change it so the virgin don't sin James?

It was not a translation Bob, for in a translation you also change the grammer. get it? yet?:BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:

 

[Jarthur001]

Maybe this will help you Bob understand..


(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) 1 Corinthians 7:28
ean <1437> de <1161> {BUT IF} kai <2532> {ALSO} ghmhV <1060> (5661) {THOU MAYEST HAVE MARRIED,} ouc <3756> hmarteV <264> (5627) {THOU DIDST NOT SIN;} kai <2532> {AND} ean <1437> {IF} ghmh <1060> (5661) {MAY HAVE MARRIED} h <3588> {THE} parqenoV <3933> {VIRGIN,} ouc <3756> {NOT} hmarten <264> (5627) {SHE DID SIN:} qliyin <2347> de <1161> {BUT TRIBULATION} th <3588> {IN THE} sarki <4561> {FLESH} exousin <2192> (5692) oi <3588> {SHALL HAVE} toioutoi <5108> {SUCH;} egw <1473> de <1161> {BUT I} umwn <5216> {YOU} feidomai <5339> (5736) {SPARE.}