HELL IS NOT LAKE OF FIRE

[DeafPosttrib]

John,

Relax.

Nearly every baptists believe hell is a literal place, it is for unbelievers, sinners, unjusts, and disobedient. I know hell is not a ternal place, it is a temporary, like as prison. BUT, all sinners who are already in hell, are reserved await for the great white throne day.

Hell is the 'first death'. But, the lake of fire is the 'second death' is eternality punishment.

At the great white throne judgment day, hell will be cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the final state place for eternality punishment.

In fact, baptists believe hell is an eternality punishment, because we believe hell WILL be cast into lake of fire - eternality punishment.

Why would you angry with us. No one here is deny hell as existed place. We all believe hell is a real place where all unbelievers shall suffer there for eternality.

Also, I do not agree with kingdombaptist.org on Joey Faust.

He believes Christians will taste the second death for a temporary.

There is no scripture supports his theory.

Rev. 20:14 louds very clear telling us, the lake of fire IS the second death. Second death is NOT a temporary. Even, Joey Faust, Lacy Evans, and others would be easily admit that the second death is an eternality punishment in the lake of fire.

There is no proof in the Bible saying second death is a temporary. No verse promises us, a person shall be freed from the second death beyond when a person shall taste the second death.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[JohnBaskette]

Dear brother; THANKS FOR YOUR QUESTION. Your reply deserves an answer & I’ll do my best.
Please include the text to which you are referring. Because my pastor, JOEY FAUST I’m almost certain Believes the second death is ETERNAL SEPERATION W/OUT END IN THE LAKE OF FIRE into THE LAKE OF FIRE. At least that’s my belief…
I really don’t know what to say here without the text you refer to on http://www.kingdombaptist.org/.
Very interesting, I await, your reply. Thanks, John Baskette

 

[JohnBaskette]

OK, OK; Hell's current existance NEVER WAS an issue, just that Hell is Cast into the Lake of fire

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
John,
Dear brother; THANKS FOR YOUR QUESTION. Your reply deserves an answer & I’ll do my best.
Please include the text to which you are referring. Because my pastor, JOEY FAUST I’m almost certain Believes the second death is ETERNAL SEPERATION W/OUT END IN THE LAKE OF FIRE. At least that’s my belief… in that we agree, as W/many other things in your reply PRAISE GOD FOR YOU!
I really don’t know what to say here without the text you refer to on http://www.kingdombaptist.org/.
Very interesting, I await, your reply. Thanks, John Baskette

* Something else;
Relax.

Nearly every baptists believe hell is a literal place, it is for unbelievers, sinners, unjusts, and disobedient. I know hell is not a ternal place, it is a temporary, like as prison. BUT, all sinners who are already in hell, are reserved await for the great white throne day.

Hell is the 'first death'. But, the lake of fire is the 'second death' is eternality punishment.

At the great white throne judgment day, hell will be cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the final state place for eternality punishment.

In fact, baptists believe hell is an eternality punishment, because we believe hell WILL be cast into lake of fire - eternality punishment.

Why would you angry with us. No one here is deny hell as existed place. We all believe hell is a real place where all unbelievers shall suffer there for eternality.

Also, I do not agree with kingdombaptist.org on Joey Faust.

He believes Christians will taste the second death for a temporary.

There is no scripture supports his theory.

Rev. 20:14 louds very clear telling us, the lake of fire IS the second death. Second death is NOT a temporary. Even, Joey Faust, Lacy Evans, and others would be easily admit that the second death is an eternality punishment in the lake of fire.

There is no proof in the Bible saying second death is a temporary. No verse promises us, a person shall be freed from the second death beyond when a person shall taste the second death.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

OK, OK; Hell's current existance NEVER WAS an issue, just that Hell is Cast into the Lake of fire

 

[dianetavegia]

Your thread title and original post remind me of a man who just was told that the 'Lord's Prayer' is really the model prayer and the actual 'Lord's Prayer' was in the Garden of Gethsemane.

HELL IS NOT A LAKE OF FIRE, as a title, gives the impression that you're going to say that hell (using that term to include the Lake of Fire) is not a bad place or a place of never ending torture.

Diane


Matthew 22:15 Then the Pharisees went and had a meeting to see how they might make use of his words to take him. 16 And they sent to him their disciples, with the Herodians, saying, Master, we see that you are true, and that you are teaching the true way of God, and have no fear of anyone, because you have no respect for a man's position. 17 Give us, then, your opinion of this: Is it right to give tax to Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus saw their trick and said, Oh false ones, why are you attempting to put me in the wrong?

 

[DavidFWhite3]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Should we develop a forum for the mansfield sect who teach believers will go to hell? I'm serious.

It has no place in "fundamental" Baptist Forum, Squire.

Dr. Bob:

I am quite certain this is not the "Fundamental" Baptist Forum. But I do wonder how anyone can ever come up with any doctrine that teaches a believer can go to hell, even for a little while. (I can understand why Martin Luther wanted to keep Revelation out of the Scriptures.Causes all kinds of problems.)

Dave

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
Your stack of "orthodox" books teaches that. The Bible teaches an eternal heaven for the righteous and eternal Lake Of Fire for the unrighteous.

"Orthodox" is a well-defined theological term to describe what is truly "CHRISTIAN". Like belief in the Triune Godhead.

So when a cultic group says there is not triune Godhead but Jesus Only (think United Pentecostal) they set themselves outside of the 2000 years of ORTHODOX Christianity as a False Religion.

Same with the Bible. Gajillion interpretations and versions, but ORTHODOX Christianity believes the Bible and no other writing (Book of Mormon, Vedas, et al).

Same with Heaven/Hell.

Hey, I didn't make up the list. My "scholars" didn't. 2000 years of Christianity did.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
HELL IS NOT A LAKE OF FIRE, as a title, gives the impression that you're going to say that hell (using that term to include the Lake of Fire) is not a bad place or a place of never ending torture.

Diane

Dianne, I suggest you are a bit too creative in your deductions. The argument is that Hell and the LOF are two different places and that the LOF, not Hell, is the final resting place of the damned. I have never heard any millenial exclusionist teach that Hell was a nice place. (Quite the contrary)

The word eternal means "age-lasting" (In whatever language). (See SS Craig.) To say a traffic light takes "forever" is a proper use of the word, "forever". (Just not in an absolute sense.) Hell is eternal, (in a limited sense of the word) but it ends up in the LOF like a cup of water in the ocean.


Hell is not the Lake of Fire.


Lacy

 

[Dr. Bob]

Think I will start a thread on terms. That might help me understand these dear folks who are going to hell/purgatory.

 

[dianetavegia]

Let's be honest... when a Baptist says hell, we know what we mean! Don't need to split hairs.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Diane,

Well saying! Amen.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[JohnBaskette]

Dear sister,
PRAISE GOD FOR YOUR BELIEF, -TAKING THE BIBLE LITERALLY Even so, we must rightly divide. For instace when Jesus warns His diciples of hell,How can this be literal? Here's how & the only way I know of, Hell is not Eternal.THE LAKE OF FIRE IS ETERNAL. We know or should, that The Lord's diciple's were saved. MANY VERSES SAY THAT THEY BELIEVED, if John 3:16 is true-bear W/my folly-The fact that Jesus warns Christians of going to hell would be a A CONTRIDICTION IN THE BIBLE? WOULDN'T IT? <-GOD FORBID!
* ALSO; EVERYTHING ON my Church's site I agree with. Y?
ANSWER IF YOU CAN ONLY W/SCRIPTURE, I'D LIKE TO KNOW...

* If I've posted anything that contradicts my pastor it was unintentionall,I don't think I have.

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Seems KingdomBaptist.org disagrees with you fellas.

http://www.kingdombaptist.org/article731.cfm

WHEN PREACHERS BURY HELL: THE ATTACK UPON LITERAL JUDGMENT FIRE AFTER DEATH

Based on the language of the Gospels, this definition, at least in regard to the parabolic language Jesus uses, is absolutely correct. In any and every parable that the Lord uses, everything really exists in reality and nature, exactly as described. Vineyards exist, husbandmen exist, fig trees exist, sheep exist, shepherds exist, doors exist, gates exist, coins exist, candles exist, brooms exist, women exist, barns exist, seeds exist, thorns exist, the sun exists, rocks exist, the blind exist, ditches exist, wine exists, leaves exist, towers exist, winepresses exist, pennies exist, fields exist, fish exist, pearls exist, the sea exists, and rich men exist, beggars exist, angels exist, Abraham exists, and HELL EXISTS AND HELL-FIRE EXISTS! Therefore, even if it could be proven that the story in Luke 16 is a parable (it is not), it would only then prove that Hell really exists, exactly as stated. Notice how the J.W.'s attempt to argue contrary to this fact:

 

[DHK]

Why is it so hard to believe that Hell is eternal.
Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire which is eternal.
If I have a handful of sand and cast it on the beach does not the handful of sand become part of all the grains of the sand on the beach? Do they still retain their own identity?
Will Hell retain its own identity in the Lake of Fire? No. But the flames and occupants thereof will continue to exist for all eternity.
A drop of water put into a glass of water becomes part of the water in the glass. It no longer retains its own identity. It is swallowed up the greater. Yet in its former state it was still water. In its latter state it is still water. Its composition doesn't change.

The nature of Hell doesn't change. It is eternal punishment. It separation from God for all eternity. The one is swallowed up by the other. Is this such a hard concept to understand? We see it in life everyday. Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Eternal punishment continues. It starts at the death of the unbeliever and continues throughout eternity no matter which way you look at it.
DHK

 

[DeafPosttrib]

John, & Lacy,

Both of you and include Joey Faust believe Christians shall taste the second death and cast into the outer darkness, but for a temporary time.

You have to prove us, one verse where in the Bible saying a Christian shall be finally being released out of the outer darkness, and the second death?

Your beliefs sound like purgatory to me. I do not accept the teaching of purgatory. Purgatory is unbiblical.

I know that, Joey Faust does NOT claim anything on purgatory. I did read his book, that he does not believe in purgatory. Yet, he teaches that a Christian shall be cast into the outer darkness for a TEMPORARY. His teaching sounds like purgatory to me.

You do really need a PROOF from the Bible telling us, a Christian will suffer the second death, but for temporary. I want a proof where verse in the Bible saying that a Christian shall suffer second death for a temporary.

I already debate with Joey Faust, by emails last year. I challenged him about 'second death'. He refused to discuss with me. Because his teaching on a Christian shall suffer second death for temporary have no evidence find anywhere in the Bible.

Throughout Centuries, Christians understood, hell is a literal place, where all unbelievers being spend suffering everlasting punishment. There is no promise for a unbeliever shall be freed from hell. Also, hell is a place for the reserved on unbelievers that, they are already appointed for goign to cast into everlasting fire - the lake of fire. No complex. Very simple and plain, because of the Bible saying so.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

DHK,

Well saying! Amen.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[JohnBaskette]

Dr.Bob,I guess I'm going back on what I said namely,"Not replying to your replies unless it contained scripture". ALSO: I'm sorry for getting in the fleshon one of my replies directed toward you. Now that that's said I find it very interesting, IRONIC that you say I shouldn't be on this Babtist list when you use the word Pergatory. PERGATORY IS A CATHOLIC TERM IS IT NOT? Just wondering...

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Think I will start a thread on terms. That might help me understand these dear folks who are going to hell/purgatory.

 

[Dr. Bob]

If a person believes that Jesus will send some of His blood bought elect children for whom EVERY SIN is fully paid and there is no judgment awaiting TO HELL for some sort of punishment/cleansing, that is as damnable a false teaching as purgatory.

You certainly don't believe that, do you?

 

[DeafPosttrib]

John,

Of course, I know, that you DO NOT believe in purgatory. That teaching is from Roman Catholic. That is correct.

Stop and think....

John Calvin developed doctrine on the perservance of the saints(same as security salvation). In fact, Calvin borrowed doctrines from St. Augustine's teaching. St. Augustine developed new doctrine on purgatory. That why Roman Catholic teaching on purgatory for many centuries to today. The reason, Catholic seems believe in the perservance of the saints. Of course, they believe salvation must base on good works. But, they do teaching on purgatory, that we have to pay saint's debt to get a saint out of the purgatory.

Joey Faust does not believe in purgatory. Yet, he teaches, a Christian shall suffer the second death for a temporary, also a Christian shall be suffering in the outer darkness for a temporary. No question, his teaching sounds like purgatory to me. He refuses to admit it. His teaching is guesswork and logicals. I do not accept his teaching, also Gary T. Whipple too. Their teaching is unbiblical. I rather follow what the Bible saying than what men saying according to Colossians 2:8.

In fact, Joey Faust & Gary Whipple both KNOW, a Christian will cast into the outer darkeness, also, they know there are many verses teaching on conditional warnings. Yet, they still teaching security salvation. Their teaching do not make a sense to me. Because both teaching that a lazy Christian will suffer in the hell/outer darkness/second death is a temporary. Obivously, their teaching can easily notice it is purgatory.

They need a true proof or evidence verse in in the Bible telling us, a Christian shall be finally being released from the hell/outer darkness/second death.

I need a proof where a verse find in the Bible saying according to their teaching, please.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DavidFWhite3]

I hope that a bunch of people so concerned about the reality of Hell will start discussing what Jesus was actually talking about every time he brought it up. We then might find ourselves getting concerned about the way we live.

You aren't going to be able to quote scripture and doctrine on judgement day when Jesus simply says to many of you reading this post:"I was hungry and you fed me not, thirsty and you gave me no drink, naked and you did not clothe me, a stranger and you did not take me in, sick and you did not care for me and in prison and you did not visit me."

Your mathematical formulas for assuring yourselves that you are saved are hogwash. You know you're saved when your heart is filled with the love of God for suffering human beings. I'm convinced a lot of you don't care if someone starves to death as long as they go to heaven. It could be that they will, and then you'll go to hell for not feeding them.
Dave

 

[JohnBaskette]

DHK;
Thank you for that well thought out reply, the analogies were great!
Now, here is the reason for seeing the difference between hell & The Lake of Fire, It was my first step in believing The Kingdom Doctrine. And while believing Hell is eternal there, is no way to reconcile versus in the Bible! Entirely comparing Scripture with Scripture.
Your Analogy ISN’T EXACTLY THE SAME AS HELL BECOMING THE LAKE OF FIRE in that the drop of water’s name couldn’t ever be written in the LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE therefore hell might as well be eternal for that drop of water. B/c as you said when hell is cast into the Lake the eternal torment doesn’t end for that drop.

Hope that clarifies it, I said the same as I have from the beginning except Using your analogy.
In Christ; John

Originally posted by DHK:
Why is it so hard to believe that Hell is eternal.
Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire which is eternal.
If I have a handful of sand and cast it on the beach does not the handful of sand become part of all the grains of the sand on the beach? Do they still retain their own identity?
Will Hell retain its own identity in the Lake of Fire? No. But the flames and occupants thereof will continue to exist for all eternity.
A drop of water put into a glass of water becomes part of the water in the glass. It no longer retains its own identity. It is swallowed up the greater. Yet in its former state it was still water. In its latter state it is still water. Its composition doesn't change.

The nature of Hell doesn't change. It is eternal punishment. It separation from God for all eternity. The one is swallowed up by the other. Is this such a hard concept to understand? We see it in life everyday. Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Eternal punishment continues. It starts at the death of the unbeliever and continues throughout eternity no matter which way you look at it.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Is my name written there,
On the page white and fair?
In the book of Thy kingdom,
Is my name written there?

Lord, my sins they are many, like the sands of the sea,
But Thy blood, O my Savior, is sufficient for me;
For Thy promise is written, in bright letters that glow,
“Though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them like snow.”

Refrain

Oh! that beautiful city, with its mansions of light,
With its glorified beings, in pure garments of white;
Where no evil thing cometh to despoil what is fair;
Where the angels are watching, yes, my name’s written there.
www.cyberhymnal.org

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I will not stand before God in the Great White Throne Judgement. That judgement is for unbelievers only. It is for the resurrection of the Unjust and the occupants of Hell. My name is forever written in the Book of Life. It will never be erased.
At the point of salvation God gave me eternal life. The gift of God is eternal life. Eternal life cannot be lost. If it could it would only be temporary and God would be found to be a liar.
DHK