Great question
God commands all men to repent knowing that we cannot
God also commands us to keep the 10 commandments knowing that we cannot
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help.....I need to understand this....
- Thread starter timdabap
- Start date
Great question
God commands all men to repent knowing that we cannot
God also commands us to keep the 10 commandments knowing that we cannot
But doesn’t God already know this?
yes
the answer is that He wants us to know and understand that we cannot
that’s why it’s called grace and mercy
yes
the answer is that He wants us to know and understand that we cannot
that’s why it’s called grace and mercy
timdabap
Member
No. I am saying God would not require repentance unto eternal salvation because He Himself knows unregenerate man, DEAD in trespasses and sin, in Adam, DOES NOT and WILL NOT require what He knows is impossible to the unregenerate.
timdabap
Member
To show man (who thinks he is only half-dead) that he is, in his unregenerate condition, TOTALLY dead in trespasses and sins.
timdabap
Member
you rattled my cage there for awhile (correct expression?).
Until I read and re-read all the Scripture, except that in 1 Corinthians and other epistles, on when the Lord instituted the Lord's Supper.
John records that Judas had left to do his number when the Lord's Supper was instituted (John 13).
The two other synoptic gospel writers (I think it was Mark and Luke) made no mention of Judas being with them, if I recall correctly.
So, there.
37818
Well-Known Member
John 13:2, ". . . And supper being ended, . . .". Luke 22:20, " . . . Likewise also the cup after supper, . . ."
Before Jesus instituted the remembrance Judas dip his hand with Jesus in a dish, Matthew 26:23-26 also Mark 14:20-21. So then Luke 22:19-22. Now following the foot washing done by Jesus, Jesus gives Judas a piece of dipped bread, John 13:24-26.
Of the gospel account writers only Luke wrote in order, ". . . It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, . . ." -- Luke 1:3.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Foot washing being a common practice. It would be done by a servant coming in at the beginning, so common it is generally not mentioned.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Jesus had already said he was not speaking to all of them that night.
That's not what He said. The sun and rain that God sends on the wheat, is that for the tares?
Did He not command abstinence from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil of those He knew would fall? Did He not give His law to a people He knew were stiff-necked and gainsaying, and that would break it?
How is the command to repent any different?
37818
Well-Known Member
Where? Mark reported, Mark 14:18, ". . . Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me. . . ."
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
You would benefit from reading a Harmony of the Gospels. Read John's account.
37818
Well-Known Member
I have been using Bible harmonies of the 4 gospels over 50 years. And if I am not mistaken one has existed since the second century. And in the mid 90's I did a verse by verse study of the Biblical events from all 4 gospels based on Luke's order of events to discover the actual historical Jewish date of the death burial and resurrection. It, the Scripture is definitive.
I disagree with your strained conclusion that Judas, personally, was included as anything more than a tare in the collective body of disciples in Christ's statement, but I have appreciated the knowledge of the biblical manuscripts you've shared on the board.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Then you know Jesus had already said he wasn't speaking to all of them when he said "You". So what's the problem?
37818
Well-Known Member
No. Judas was at the Lord's table just as Luke wrote. And John recorded the foot washing Jesus did was after the supper was ended. After which Jesus sent Judas out.
Luke 22:20-21, John 13:2, ". . . supper being ended . . . ." According to the word of God. Not man made tradition.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Please show from the text, how the footwashing was after the supper ended.
37818
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yep I sure can. That's not what John 13:2 says:
2 During supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him,
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Jn 13:2.
37818
Well-Known Member
"During" supper in John 13:2 is not according to the word of God. In any case, Judas was at the table according to Luke 22:20-21.