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Help me understand calvinism.

G

Gorship

Active Member
Iconoclast said:
Don't do that...he is just trying to understand your motivation...There is no change possible in God's
plan.It is fixed and certain, so much so that at the Incarnation the Zacharias announced it as if it were already finished;
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
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Alright I'm gunna start a fire.

Exo 32:14 God changes His mind on the calamity He was about to bring.

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
lol not sure what excitement you thought I was going to put forth....
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32:14 the LORD changed His mind about the harm. Moses’ appeal for God to change His mind, to relent, succeeded because God had only threatened judgment, not decreed it. A divine intention is not an unchangeable divine decree. Decrees or sworn declarations (cf. Ge 22:16–18; Ps 110:4) or categorical statements of not changing or relenting (cf. Jer 4:28; Eze 24:14; Zec 8:14, 15) are unconditional and bind the speaker to the stated course of action regardless of the circumstances or reactions of the listeners. Intentions retain a conditional element and do not necessarily bind the speaker to a stated course of action (cf. Jer 15:6; 18:8–10; 26:3, 13, 19; Joel 2:13; Jon 3:9, 10; 4:2).

John F. MacArthur Jr., The MacArthur Study Bible: New American Standard Bible. (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2006), Ex 32:14.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Gorship said:
I mean philosophy doesnt have verses. But anyway. Arminians / non cals do have scriptures for their views too.

Quick q. Are non calvys saved?

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There are saved persons who do not even know the term Calvinism, there are 5 pointers who are not saved..
Personally, I believe every saved person is a Calvinist. you know the battery level on your phone, the green bars? I think those who say they are non-cals, believe many of the same things.
They usually object to the L....they have an idol of free will that must die, before they can progress.
So for each of the 5 points, their green bars are lower than a cal, but depending on the wording of the question put to them. they agree or disagree.

I have known many who opposed themselves and argued against the teaching but now see it quite clearly. It is between each person and God..
 
G

Gorship

Active Member
Iconoclast said:
There are saved persons who do not even know the term Calvinism, there are 5 pointers who are not saved..
Personally, I believe every saved person is a Calvinist. you know the battery level on your phone, the green bars? I think those who say they are non-cals, believe many of the same things.
They usually object to the L....they have an idol of free will that must die, before they can progress.
So for each of the 5 points, their green bars are lower than a cal, but depending on the wording of the question put to them. they agree or disagree.

I have known many who opposed themselves and argued against the teaching but now see it quite clearly. It is between each person and God..
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So if I'm truly saved. Deep down im just fighting my inner calvy.

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
For the record, I used to be against Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, and Irresistible Grace. The only point I believed for a LONG time was Eternal Security.
 
G

Gorship

Active Member
davidtaylorjr said:
For the record, I used to be against Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, and Irresistible Grace. The only point I believed for a LONG time was Eternal Security.
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Hm the latest thing I denounced was eternal sec.. I'm with ya on depravity? Mostly.

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I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Gorship said:
So if I'm truly saved. Deep down im just fighting my inner calvy.

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let me give an example or two.
Let's take Limited Atonement.
if I ask you, you might say you deny that teaching.
the fact is we both believe in limited atonement .

neither of us think Satan is saved
neither of us think fallen angels are saved
neither of us believe every human ever born is saved.
So we both limit the atonement.
I just believe it full 5 green bars, from the start.
 
G

Gorship

Active Member
davidtaylorjr said:
32:14 the LORD changed His mind about the harm. Moses’ appeal for God to change His mind, to relent, succeeded because God had only threatened judgment, not decreed it. A divine intention is not an unchangeable divine decree. Decrees or sworn declarations (cf. Ge 22:16–18; Ps 110:4) or categorical statements of not changing or relenting (cf. Jer 4:28; Eze 24:14; Zec 8:14, 15) are unconditional and bind the speaker to the stated course of action regardless of the circumstances or reactions of the listeners. Intentions retain a conditional element and do not necessarily bind the speaker to a stated course of action (cf. Jer 15:6; 18:8–10; 26:3, 13, 19; Joel 2:13; Jon 3:9, 10; 4:2).

John F. MacArthur Jr., The MacArthur Study Bible: New American Standard Bible. (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2006), Ex 32:14.
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Hey I wanna come back here.

So God can change His mind, just not His decrees. But isn't all history decreed in some sense?

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G

Gorship

Active Member
Iconoclast said:
let me give an example or two.
Let's take Limited Atonement.
if I ask you, you might say you deny that teaching.
the fact is we both believe in limited atonement .

neither of us think Satan is saved
neither of us think fallen angels are saved
neither of us believe every human ever born is saved.
So we both limit the atonement.
I just believe it full 5 green bars, from the start.
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I don't deny limited atonement. I just define it differently.

I take it to 11.

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I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Another example;
take all the non -cals on BB
we take a poll on the 5pts

a certain % will agree 100 percent on T

a different percentage on the U, etc

all claim to be non cal, but if you make a composite they come to the full 5 points
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Gorship said:
I don't deny limited atonement. I just define it differently.

I take it to 11.

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That is what i am talking about. Everyone is at different levels of growth and maturity.
let's say Dave and I agree on 94% of the teaching. because we disagree on 6% does that mean it is the fault of the teaching? Or maybe Dave has a clearer view of certain scriptures than I do.
 
G

Gorship

Active Member
Iconoclast said:
That is what i am talking about. Everyone is at different levels of growth and maturity.
let's say Dave and I agree on 94% of the teaching. because we disagree on 6% does that mean it is the fault of the teaching? Or maybe Dave has a clearer view of certain scriptures than I do.
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So when you reach maturity and become a classical arminian I will be here with open arms brother.

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I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Gorship said:
So He just threatened Moses. He threatens with no intent lol?

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God uses language in a way we can understand.
God does not need to repent, or change.
, 6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
 
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