• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Heresy

Status
Not open for further replies.

npetreley

New Member
Teaching about a future millennial reign of Christ, and even calling it a kingdom, is not heresy. Even I believe that much is Biblical.

Teaching that you must be saved by good works in order to enter this kingdom (otherwise you will suffer for 1,000 years in hell or wherever that particular ME guy says we go), introduces another gospel of salvation, and one by works. That's why kingdom teaching is not heresy, but kingdom salvation/ME teaching is heresy.
 

Rufus_1611

New Member
npetreley said:
Teaching about a future millennial reign of Christ, and even calling it a kingdom, is not heresy. Even I believe that much is Biblical.

Teaching that you must be saved by good works in order to enter this kingdom (otherwise you will suffer for 1,000 years in hell or wherever that particular ME guy says we go), introduces another gospel of salvation, and one by works. That's why kingdom teaching is not heresy, but kingdom salvation/ME teaching is heresy.

Well that's progress. All we are effectively arguing about then is, what does "outer darkness", "cut asunder", "his portion with the unbelievers" and "unprofitable servant" mean and where is the place where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

"The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." - Luke 12:46​

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 8:12

"And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen." - Matthew 22:12-14

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 25:30​
 

James_Newman

New Member
EdSutton said:
While this may be somewhat true, once again, this is not entirely true. I repeat what I said about the late Dr. Mark G. Cambron. My comments, as touch on Dr. Cambron are not mere repeating what someone else (may have) said, but on personal knowledge and classroom teachings and hearing.

So not all do hold to 'ME' who are published, here. Another example would be Dr. A. Ray Stanford, whose Handbook of Personal Evangelism is also printed by Schottle Publishing. Again, I know Dr. Stanford, personally, and he does not hold to this teaching, either.

And not all teaching regarding the kingdom and the Judgment seat of Christ, are related to ME teachings, either.

This is not a case of if one believes in the Judgment Seat for believers (which BTW, an a-milleniallist does not believe in, by definition, but sees it as synonomous with the Great White Throne, for the teaching of 'only' one general judgment), one necessarily believes in Millennial Exclusion, for not all do, including some, if not most, "classic dispensationalists".

Certainly, C.I.Scofield, one of the main acknowledged 'godfathers' of dispensationalism, did not teach this, at least not in the Scofield Reference Bible. Nor did such as H. A. Ironside, Lewis S. Chafer, and I've never heard such attributed to John N. Darby, either, although I do not know what he actually believed on this, not having read much by him. However, as 'controversial' as this appears, I would think that it would be front page news, if that was what he actually taught.

Please avoid overly generalizing in this. It confuses the issue(s) involved, and only leads to more misunderstanding(s).

Ed
Well, Schoettle is not a close personal friend of mine, but he has come to our church a number of times and did also attend our Kingdom conference two years back. He maintains a list of churches on his web site that teach kingdom accountability (to whatever degree they may teach it and I don't think the list is current) and this is what his website says:

[FONT=arial,geneva]Local assemblies are few and far between that proclaim the importance of the saints' coming judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and their possible subsequent forfeiture of ruling and reigning with Him during His Kingdom.[/FONT]
http://www.schoettlepublishing.com/local.htm

I certainly wouldn't be trying to drive a wedge between you and Schoettle, rather I would suggest you go to him and ask him about these things and see what he says.
 

Hope of Glory

New Member
EdSutton said:
did not teach this, at least not in the Scofield Reference Bible. Nor did such as H. A. Ironside, Lewis S. Chafer, and I've never heard such attributed to John N. Darby, either, although I do not know what he actually believed on this, not having read much by him. However, as 'controversial' as this appears, I would think that it would be front page news, if that was what he actually taught.

I can't speak to the others, but Ironside is one of the first places where I read this, many, many years ago. Although I haven't read any of his books in probably 20 years, he certainly did teach that outer darkness was a thread for saved individuals.
 

TCGreek

New Member
Rufus_1611 said:
A Calvin/Arminian debate as if there are no other options...isn't that clever? I was a Calvinist and couldn't reconcile all the conditional verses, I was an Arminianist and couldn't reconcile all of the eternal security verses, I received the kingdom accountability doctrine, everything began to fit into place and I became a Baptist.

What are you going to be next?
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
We try NOT to use the word "heresy" as a rule on the BB. We've let this thread go a couple days and appreciate the ideas and opinions.

Starting to label individual posters as "heretics" is not where this should go.

Remember, an Arminian will call a Calvinist a "heretic". One who believes the "only" teaching will call a user of the NIV a "heretic". Covenanters will call Dispies thus, as will pre/mid/post tribbers label others. Young Earth v evolutionists will begin to "label", as will those who pour or sprinkle v immerse (and those immersing 3 times forward would have the right then to call those 1 time backward immersionists by that name, too).

So think the point is obvious.

And the thread is over. The use of "heretic" in titles/labels will be nipped in the bud from this point on.

You bunch of heretics . . :BangHead:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top