Heretics should be murdered!

[Winman]

Calvinism is just a historical label that has come to represent a particular soteriological view. It doesn't mean all "Calvinists" support or believe everything Calvin taught or did. Same is true of Arminianism.

I believe the OP is much ado about nothing. Culture has changed and things like slavery and Heretic executions were supported by otherwise decent followers of Christ. Calvin was a genius and notable biblical scholar. His work on prayer is amazing. I disagree with him on a few doctrinal points, as did Arminius, but in the great scheme of things we are very close and all of us would do well to show him the respect he deserves while still being able to rationally and objectively disagree with him on particular aspects of his teachings.

Just my two cents worth...

So, Calvin was just a nice guy who executed people or threw them into prison because they disagreed with him. I guess that would make Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse Tung all nice guys simply because widespread killing was the norm at the time.

Sorry Skan, can't agree with you here.

 

[matt wade]

So, Calvin was just a nice guy who executed people or threw them into prison because they disagreed with him. I guess that would make Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse Tung all nice guys simply because widespread killing was the norm at the time.

Sorry Skan, can't agree with you here.

You forgot about the Crusades...the Crusades were cool because killing was cool at the time....

 

[jbh28]

So, Calvin was just a nice guy who executed people or threw them into prison because they disagreed with him.

That's not really true. You may want to read up on the history of Calvin. If you don't care to, then don't post about it if your are not willing to do the research.

 

[Mexdeaf]

This OP was born in the pit of jealousy and has gone downhill. If I were a mod I'd close it. There's nothing Christlike about it.

 

[plain_n_simple]

I think the OP was reflecting that there was nothing Christlike about John Calvins life.

 

[Luke2427]

Matt,
Don't be Luke2427... It's not attractive for his position and it's not attractive to your (and mine) position.

Neither your posts like this or Luke2427's posts are at all in the spirit of Christ. Please stop this!

I fear that too many people confuse the pop Christ- the Christ of pop-culture- with the Christ of SCRIPTURE.

 

[Iconoclast]

I bow to your superior intellect Iconoclast. Yes, you are a superior biblical scholar. yes, you are superior in all intellectual ways. You have made me understand that one must be a true intellectual to understand the Word of God and that I am not worthy to even crack open a Bible, let alone talk about it.

:sleeping_2:

Yes Matt.......I will accept your confession at face value.From your posts which mostly do not use scripture...I believe you that you have not considered yourself worthy to "crack open the bible"...let alone talk about it:thumbs:
From what I see.....you talk more about Calvin than the bible.Looks as if you have not read any Calvin either...but that does not deter you from sharing your "insights"
Thank you for complimenting my scholarship. However...it is not so much of my intellect....it is just that I use the scripture as it taught so it seems to you beyond what you can take in. if you listen to sermons and read the scripture, study each day, maybe you will grow in the grace and knowledge of the lord Jesus Christ......instead of whining about Calvin. Try it matt....you might like it:thumbs::wavey:

 

[plain_n_simple]

So did John Calvin do these things Matt has said? Where is a good unbiased place to learn about this John Calvin?

 

[Rippon]

You forgot about the Crusades...the Crusades were cool because killing was cool at the time....

You belong on a secular forum --not a Christian one.

 

[Iconoclast]

Incorrect Icon, the "line of reasoning" is misplaced theological passions being articulated in a less than appropriate manner. That is all that it is.

You might be onto something here QF.....
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Rippon]

I think the OP was reflecting that there was nothing Christlike about John Calvins life.

Instead it demonstrated the unChrist-like attitude of the author of the OP.

I don't think that most of us on the BB --Calvinist or non-Calvinist approach the level of godliness of the man of Geneva.

 

[jbh28]

So did John Calvin do these things Matt has said? Where is a good unbiased place to learn about this John Calvin?

http://fide-o.com/2009/07/john-calvin-and-servetus-controversy-explained/

 

[plain_n_simple]

I don't think that most of us on the BB --Calvinist or non-Calvinist approach the level of godliness of the man of Geneva.

This is what makes me nervous. Jesus is the mark, not some dead guy. Forgive me again but it seems some are putting this man high up above others, when Jesus said the valleys will be made high and mountains low. I'm not picking a fight, I am new to Calvin.

 

[zrs6v4]

So, Calvin was just a nice guy who executed people or threw them into prison because they disagreed with him. I guess that would make Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse Tung all nice guys simply because widespread killing was the norm at the time.

Sorry Skan, can't agree with you here.

when making these statements this intense, give us a source from where your thought came from so we can evaluate it please.

I also think there is a balance between justice and grace. Im not sure as a Christian we have been given the right by God to extend judgment on a heretic. I dont personally know Calvins situation nor do I see early chirch Fathers doing this but we live in a fantasy land today.

I am convicted that in the New Covenent we extend grace but we must not let heretics go with a smile on our face as they lead thousands away from God. Am i saying kill them? No. But look at what is happening.
I am all for protecting truth and I will bluntly say that treating certain people like a lost flower wont protect our children and their children.

Winman, is a man who has many wives in our day a lost heretic?

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't think that most of us on the BB --Calvinist or non-Calvinist approach the level of godliness of the man of Geneva.

This is what makes me nervous. Jesus is the mark, not some dead guy. Forgive me again but it seems some are putting this man high up above others, when Jesus said the valleys will be made high and mountains low. I'm not picking a fight, I am new to Calvin.

pns

read some first......
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/commentaries.i.html

 

[plain_n_simple]

I have enough from what the post said, "a level of godliness"? That is putting this man high.

 

[Iconoclast]

I have enough from what the post said, "a level of godliness"? That is putting this man high.

You and others have written or implied that he was an ungodly person.
If you read from any of his commentaries, i do not think you would post in ignorance.

You might not agree with everything he taught, as I do not either. But to dismiss him as just some "old dead guy".....is foolish.

Everyone is to worship Jesus...yes. But apostolic instruction teaches to mark out ...good examples and bad examples of those who profess faith
Phil3:13-21

13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Luke2427]

I don't think that most of us on the BB --Calvinist or non-Calvinist approach the level of godliness of the man of Geneva.

This is what makes me nervous. Jesus is the mark, not some dead guy. Forgive me again but it seems some are putting this man high up above others, when Jesus said the valleys will be made high and mountains low. I'm not picking a fight, I am new to Calvin.

I think you may have the erroneous thinking that goes something like this:

It is Christian to never express great appreciation for any human.

But that is not Christian. It may make some people FEEL like they are nobler than others, but there is no biblical precident for it.

In fact the bible teaches that we should render honor to whom honor is due.

If Christ himself raises up a man and uses him MIGHTILY to bless the Body of Christ then it is CHRISTIAN to appreciate that man.

A passage often abused to exalt what it seems is your thinking is the passage in Corinthians where some were saying "I am of Apolos" and others were saying "I am of Paul" and others were saying "I am of Cephas". But what these misguided people fail to realize is that there was a fourth group that Paul condemned alongside these three groups as being as guilty of sin as they were. It was the group that made themselves seem BETTER than the others by saying, "I AM OF JESUS!"

That fourth group was arrogant and self exalting and holier than thou, apparently.

That, I am afraid, is where you may be.

You may think it is SPIRITUAL to say, "I EXALT JESUS!!! while you people are MAN WORSHIPPERS!"

But it is not spiritual.

It is the opposite of spiritual.

And saying, "John Calvin was a great man gifted of God with amazing brilliance" is not like saying, "I am of John Calvin." It is simply doing what the Bible says to do- appreciate those God raises up who deserve to be appreciated.

 

[plain_n_simple]

I will explore this when I find an unbiased source (good or bad). My posts were a presumption that the OP was true. I'll repent if needed. Let's say that John Calvin was not what Matt said (murderer, hypocrite, etc.) and that his teaching and life is reasonable. It still does not warrant me putting his name high. It's all Jesus. I can study and get deep revelation without Calvin or anyone. I see this has caused great division in the church and that is never good nor edifying.

 

[Luke2427]

I will explore this when I find an unbiased source (good or bad). My posts were a presumption that the OP was true. I'll repent if needed. Let's say that John Calvin was not what Matt said (murderer, hypocrite, etc.) and that his teaching and life is reasonable. It still does not warrant me putting his name high. It's all Jesus. I can study and get deep revelation without Calvin or anyone. I see this has caused great division in the church and that is never good nor edifying.

I address this erroneous way of thinking in post # 78.