Historic Baptist Beliefs on the Resurrection and Judgment

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Ed,

Why cannot you accept what Christ saying? Stop listening what you read from tons of dispensationalism books about the timing of Christ's coming in their own logical or guesswork, better follow and listen what Christ actual saying, believe His word.

DeafPosttrib

You have hit the nail on the head, or Ed on the head, figuratively speaking. The problem with dispensationalists is that they take the notes of the Scofield bible as inerrant or the writings of some dispensationalist as inerrant while ignoring the words of Scripture.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> ... the fact that appropriate time is singular ...

I respectfully disagree. 'appropriate time'
is neither singular nor plural.
Would you understand better if it said
what follows?


28 Marvel not at this: for the millinnium
is coming, in the which all that are
in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have
done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the
resurrection of damnation.

There would be no difference in the meaning.
hour = appropriate time
day = appropriate time
year = appropriate time
Daniel's 70th week of 7-years = appropirate time
millinnium = appropriate time </font>[/QUOTE]The point is Ed that all come out of the graves at the same period of time, not 1000 years apart.

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed and DeafPostTrib,

Ed, it looks like our friend DeafPostTrib has
ignored the reality and necessity of a 1000
year period, following the second coming, so
that the Martyrs may "serve God in heaven's
Temple" while it is still "day and night" on
earth. For there will be "no temple and no
day and night" after the 1000 years end. Rev.
21:22,25. But note Rev.7:15-17's "day & night"!

Jesus knew this when He said there was "an"
Hour (not THE Hour) coming to raise up both the righteous and the unrighteous! He had the 1000-year period in mind when the Martyrs serve God in the NEW JERUSALEM while it is still in heaven. They win the reward promised to the
Church in Rev.3:12. For there will be NO
Temple when the "New Jerusalem comes down over/
upon the earth" 1000 years later.

When Peter writes that "we are A people of God"
but at one time were not "A people of God", he
allows that there are two "peoples of God" at
one and the same time . . . even though He has
turned His face away from His former people!!

When God no longer "hides His face from His
former people (Ezek.39:29), He will pour out
His Spirit on the WHOLE House of Israel". That
means, contrary to our two Amillennarian Bros.,
that the whole House of Israel has not YET been
saved as Paul says will happen when "Messiah
comes out of Zion". That's when the Jews will mourn and beg to escape His wrath. Rom.11:25-27;
Luke 21:34-36; Matt.24:30; Rev.1:7; Zech.12:10.

Only then God "remembers their sins no more"!
And WHY? Because He has promised an eternal
kingdom for Abraham's natural seed that requires
the return of Christ to "redeem" them on the Day
that comes "suddenly, unawares, like a snare and
no one can escape" EXCEPT those who call on the
name of the Lord and "keep begging to escape and
to prevail in standing before the Son of Man".
Luke 21:28,31,36.

So the absence of "THE" in John 5:28 permits
the required 1000 year separation between the
First Resurrection that includes the Martyrs
AND the time to raise up unbelievers at the
"second death". WE ARE PRE-MILLENNIALISTS!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
I also couldn't help noticing the obviously inflammatory manner in which the poll was worded.

This is typical of OR.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

'OR'?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

'OR'?

You mean OldRegular? That is not his opinion. That was the fact what the Early Christians believed. Today, many baptists' beliefs are not same as what early baptists believed.

The doctrine of eschatology have been changed lot in the last 300 years because of men's teachings. That why we have to be careful what we listening and reading to any men's teachings. Because there are too many different views, opinions on the end times. There are too many false teachings out there today.

There is not a single passage find anywhere in the Old Testament saying there shall be two resurrections or two judgments. Daniel chapter 7 and 12 both are the clearest passage mentioned on general judgment and a single resurrection at Lord's coming.

All 66 books were canon together fit perfect so beautiful, no accident. All of these are inspired and God-breathing. Throughout in the Bible teaching there is only one judgment day for every creatures(person).

Later I will discuss more about 'temple' as what Miller posted recently today.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

Mel Miller

Does your First Resurrection occur before the Grreat Tribulation or after the Grreat Tribulation?

 

[Mel Miller]

OR asks:
______________________________________________
"Does your First Resurrection occur before the Great Tribulation or after Great Tribulation"?
______________________________________________
The answer is so definite that one must wonder
how the "last day" could mean anything other
than the Day Christ is revealed to destroy all
the wicked and also those who refuse to repent.

"All believers will rise up on the last day"!

You have not once commented on the fact that
the 1000-Year Reign of Christ begins with the
Resurrection of all those who have "died in
the Lord" . . . because they do not begin to
"serve God in the Temple of heaven" until they
come out from under the Altar on the last day.

That is why their having "lived" as of the last
day is in the aorist indicative (done deal) but their reign with Christ for 1000 years is in
the future tense as of the last day. Rev.20:6!

That is also why the "rest of the dead" did not live (as of the last day; aorist indicative)
because they will remain dead "until the 1000
years SHOULD BE FINISHED"! (Aorist Subjunctive)!

The future tense for the Martyrs' reign with
Christ begins their reign when Christ comes.

The change FROM the aorist indicative for the continued state of death for the "rest of the dead" TO the aorist subjunctive requires that
their future resurrection must wait "until the 1000 years SHOULD BE FINISHED". This change demands that they remain dead while all the Martyrs "serve God and reign with Christ in the Temple of heaven" for that same period. Rev.3:12; Rev.7:15-17; Rev.20:4,6.

Mel Miller Junior www.lastday.net

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by OldRegular:

Does your First Resurrection occur before the Grreat Tribulation or after the Grreat Tribulation?

Yes.
Part one of the First Resurrection: before
Part two of the Second Resurrection: after

The inhabitants of each phase of the
FIRST RESURRECTION are named in
Revelation 20:4.

In the recent past, if a person search Google for:
4203 rapture site:baptistboard.com you will
get 237 hits. Check the board first to see if the page
is still there; check the 'Cached' if not (it may be stored
in Google space).

I do nothing but prove the pretribulation rapture from the
Holy Bible. I don't use early church fathers, I don't use
17th Century English Baptist writings. I just use the Bible
to prove the Pretribulation Rapture.

I'll be busy the next month or so and won't have time to read the new
posts let alone respond to all of them. But Those
237 pages of my pretribulation rapture writings (on the BB alone)
should keep you out of trouble, well maybe

 

[Ed Edwards]

The point is Ed that all come out
of the graves at the same
period of time, not 1000 years apart.[/b]

Ed shakes the dust off his feet.
Come on, '1,000 years' is a member of the set
of 'period of time'.

Also, when Christ was with three disciples- Peter, John, and James
in the garden after the Lord's supper. CHrist begged them to watch
him praying for a hour, but they were fell in sleep so fast,
then Christ asked them to watch him for pray second time.
But, they again fell in sleep. Then, when after Christ prayed
third time, and he saw them slept, He said, "Sleep on now, and take
your rest behold 'the HOUR is at hand', and the Son of man is betrayed
into the hands of sinners." - Matt. 26:45. He spoken
of his death is about to arrival, as his TIME has arrived
for him to face calvary, about 12 to 15 hours later, he died.
He spoken of 'hour' means TIME for him to face Calvary.

YOur exercise is futile. You are talking history, where the
usual meaning of 'hour' is 'about 60 minutes. I'm talking prophecy
where the Bible talks about an HOUR when all the the grave shall
come forth, a DAY when the Lord will advenge Yisrael,
a 1,000 year Messanic Kingdom. There is a basic difference between
the 18th century 'historal Bbaptist' position and the current
Baptist position. The historic Baptists Deleted Scriptures that
didn't fit into their understanding. One who reads 2 Peter 3, things
they understand it, then OMIT Revelation 20 by ignoring it or by
spiritualizing it - that is what I'm talking about.

28 Marvel not at this: for the millinnium is coming...

You just added unto God's word, not actual what Christ said.
How can you be sure that 'hour' equals with 1,000 years?

You Sir, remove stuff from God's word:
Revelation 22:19 (HCSB):
And if anyone takes away fromt he words of this prophetic book,
God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy
city written in this book.
Be careful, Brother, I blieve in OSAS (once saved, always saved)
- you are the one who thinks you can loose your salvation taking
away from God's Words. I think God will forgive you, but you will
never ask for forgiviness being blind to God's Written
Word and deaf to God's hope of the pretribulation Rapture.

Mel:

Ed, it looks like our friend DeafPostTrib has
ignored the reality and necessity of a 1000
year period, following the second coming, so
that the Martyrs may "serve God in heaven's
Temple" while it is still "day and night" on
earth.

Yep. Revelation 20 is sacrificed on the false-altar of
the misunderstanding-god of 2 Peter 3:10.

I know, you really, really having hard to accept
what Christ actual saying of John 5:28.

Ah, a little psychological projection

projecting one's insecurities (isn't it strange how Security
of the Believer folks are secure). I've argued amills
under the table for 3½-years now on this board alone.
They never see the Chineese torture tube - the harder they
fight, the deeper they sink into the quicksand.

John 5:28 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003):

Do not be amazed at this, because
a time is coming when all who are in the graves
will hear His voice

Please do not add to the scripture (adding the plagues
of Revelation upon your own head) and make it read:

do not be amazed at this, because
time OF ONE AND ONLY ONE HOUR is coming when all who are in the graves
will hear His voice

Do not delete Revelation 20:4-6 from your Bible and take your
part of the Holy City away. Your misunderstanding of 'hour'
in John 4:25 just isn't worth that.

John 5:24 (HCSB):
I assure you: Anyone who hears My word
and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not
come under judgement, but has passed from death to life.

Early Christians believed only one coming of Christ,
even, they believed in general judgment follow at Christ's coming,
because they understood what God's Word saying, they followed it.

Strange, that you know what 'early Christians' believed yet you will
not listen to what God's Bible says. All my messages of the pretribulation
raputre hope come from the Holy Bible which we have with us and
NOT from some uncheckable earthly opinion of 'early Christians' believed.
I think Early Christians hoped that Jesus would come get them personally
when they die or in the rapture.

Have you ever had an athiest person call you "a self-righteous hypocrite"?
I haven't this year, in 2006. But in like Sept 2005 I had one call me:
"a self-righteous /curseword deleted/". I had a bumper sticker
that said:

I BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG
GOD SAID IT -- BANG! IT HAPPENED

Today, there are too many commentatories, books, doctrines,
religions out in the world, cause Christians into confusion
and misunderstanding. Because most Christians do not actual
read or study God's Word at home. They depend on men's books
too much than read only one book - Bible. Sad.

What is even sadder is that i've spent more time studying God's written
word than you have been an adult. But you insist on belittling me
because I didn't come up with the same stuff you came up with?
I'll have to tell you, nobody else will, your fly is unzipped.
Everytime God gives somebody special insight into what the early
Christians thought and believed - God has to call three people to
go around undoing the harm they done to the Kingdom.

 

[OldRegular]

Mel and Ed

Your above posts are not only unBiblical they are totally ambiguous, that means they don't make sense.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ro 14:19 (nKJV):
Therefore let us pursue the things which make
for peace and the things by which one may edify
another.

1Co 10:23 (nKJV):
All things are lawful for me, but not all things
are helpful; all things are lawful for me,
but not all things edify.

1Th 5:11 (nKJV):
Therefore comfort each other and edify one another,
just as you also are doing.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

You say,

I've spent more time studying God's written word than you have been an adult[/Quote

Well, I believe you. I think you are 63 or 64 years old. I am 36 years old.

My question for you. HOW did you heard the word, "pretribulation" rapture comes from? Don't tell me the lie, God is watching you.

I first heard "pretribulation" rapture by through church from listening by pastor preaches on rapture comes BEFORE the Bible.

Over 95%(more likely 100%) of baptists in America, first heard of 'pretribulation' rapture by listening from books, T.V. pastors, Christians first time BEFORE the Bible. That is the fact.

You told me, you first hear of rapture from evangelist preached on it when you were 7 years old. Do you trust evangelist was telling the truth on rapture? How do you know that evangelist was telling the truth??

There is not a single verse anywhere in the Bible saying that Christ shall come before tribulation. Matt. 24:29-31 is the clearest passage saying that Christ shall come again AFTER the tribulation! I could have show you tons of verses in the Bible to prove that Christ shall come after tribulation if I want to.

You often saying Matt. 24:31 is 'pretribulation rapture'. Partially I agree with you that verse does mentioned on rapture, yet I do not agree with you on your view of rapture timing, because you didn't follow the context of Matt. 24:29-31 saying that the rapture shall be follow after the tribulation. You always keep on stress or emphasis on word, 'and' to show there are separated events, yet you are wrong. I am sure that in your heart and mind, that you KNOW Matt. 24:29-31 is so very clear prove that Christ shall come again to gathering us together shall be after tribulation, yet you refuse to admit it. God knows in your heart.

Again, I told you of John 6:39,40,44, & 54 - "last day", it is very simple and understandable, what Christ said. Even, a second grade student understands tomorrow is the LAST DAY of school, then the next two days, NO MORE school for the rest of summer. Use your common sense what Christ saying.

Christ never say anything on 'a thousand years' during in his ministry for 3 1/2 years. Disciples understood Christ saying that He shall come again on the last day, because of what Christ saying so.

Later I will discuss more about Revelation chapter 20.

By the way, I working at Krogers foodstore as stock -3rd shift. while I racked salad dressing in the aisle, I often notice salad dressing bottle says, 'A Thousand'. My understanding of it, it never mean a literal thousand, but multiply-countless.

I will discuss more about 'thousand' with verses what it means.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Years of time have come and gone
Since I first heard it told
How Jesus would come again some day
If back then, it seemed so real
I just can't help but feel
How much closer his coming is today.

Signs of the times are everywhere
There's a brand new feeling in the air
Keep your eyes upon the Eastern Sky
Lift up your head, your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

I do nothing but prove the pretribulation rapture from the
Holy Bible. I don't use early church fathers, I don't use
17th Century English Baptist writings. I just use the Bible
to prove the Pretribulation Rapture.

Ed

You may delude yourself into believing that you prove a pretrib rapture from Scripture but you don't and can't. In fact no one can because it is an unBiblical doctrine invented by Darby.