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Historic Premillennialism and Daniel’s 70 Weeks

John of Japan

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Not all of it. I'll give you that here from More than Conquerors, by William Hendriksen: REVELATION 20-22 2. The Reign of the Saints (20: 4-6), pg 193.
I don't want Hendriksen. I want you to answer.
It certainly would be better if you had already gained the understanding that each of Revelation's SEVEN VISIONS gives a treatment repeating events, as examples of circumstances which will TAKE PLACE THROUGHOUT THE CHURCH AGE, and each VISION covers the same SPAN and PERIOD OF TIME IN HISTORY, the Time between Jesus' First Coming and His Ascension to Jesus'
Second Coming...believe it or not, that is how Revelation is structured, so we can get the best grasp of what God has 'Revealed'!
I've read the book of Revelation for 60 years, preached on it, taught on it in Japanese and English, read commentaries on it, written lectures and papers on it. (Shall I attach my set of lectures on the whole book in Japanese? ;)) I think I have already "gained the understanding" of the book, but I have doubts about you. :Cautious (That was an offensive statement. Just saying, you know. It is impolite to assume ignorance in a debate opponent.)

But I suggest you start your own thread on this as you have been asked to by the author of the OP.
 
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John of Japan

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Very good/nice question!

25; "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26; "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."


Do you see this? "the people of the prince that shall come",
Then, who is it that this verse says it is "that shall come"?

It is "the people of the prince" = "that shall come" and do the destroying, not "the prince".

"the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"; that is, the people of the Romans, under Vespasian their prince, emperor, and General Titus, who was Vespasion's son, should, in a little time after the cutting off of the Messiah at His Crucifixion, enter into the land of Judea, and destroy the city of Jerusalem, and the Temple that stood in it; (though some understand this of Messiah the Prince that should Come in His Power, and in a way of Judgment upon the Jewish Nation, and destroy them for their Rejection and Murdering of Him and it is True in my belief, but not as the Primary Interpretation OF "THE PRINCE" but would be an application and we'd need to add a Capitol "P" in Prince then; Matthew 24: the "Coming of the Lord" that the Deciples ask Jesus about was when they thought Jesus might Make His Triupham Proclimation that He was taking over the Rule of the Government from The Jews, when they asked, "what shall be the sign of Thy Coming", in 24:3b, while the real question that Jesus Answered was concerning the signs there would be prior to Jesus Coming in Providential Judgment upon the Jews, with Him Overseeing The Roman Armies "in the clouds", like in the Old Testament and Matthew 24, because at that Time in 70 A.D. the people or the Roman Army would be under Jesus Direction, ultimately, and Jesus would also ultimately be the One by Whose Orders, all these Judgments would be brought upon the Jews, in Jerusalem, A.D. 70.

So, in Matthew 24 Jesus is the Primary Interpretation of Who was to do the destroying, by Using the people, the Roman Armies, was Jesus, as we see
in 24:27; "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west (when you realize the Roman Armies are Coming (as Jesus is Using them = you better ruuun!!); "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" when Jesus' was Coming in Judgment against those Jews who as a Nation had Crucified Him). 28; "For wheresoever the carcase is" (the deceased Jews), "there will the eagles" (the Roman Army who's insignia was an Eagle) "be gathered together", but here in Daniel 9, it is going to be Vespasion as the Primary Interpretation, being the actual historical prince at that time and his son, Titus, who carried out the Abomination of Desolation (Matthew 24:15). Many of the Jewish writers themselves Interpret it of Vespasian, as Aben Ezra, Jarchi, Abarbinel, and Jacchiades:"



"Gap" sounds strangely familiar. 70 years equalling 69 years plus approximately 2000+/- years plus 1 more year? Not your typical Prophecy accuracy we'd like to see.

The 2069th+/- week, plus one!(?)


"the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary" is how it is said in Daniel 9:26 KJV. So, we have to make sure we're saying what's there right.

Yes, Vespasian can be the one talked about here and his son, Titus "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate", whereas the Determination was by Jesus' Decree, for sure.

Once you have Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation under your belt, where you feel very confident about your understanding of Daniel 7, Matthew 24, and Revelation 20:4, especially, you will be glad you stuck with them to get at least your weight in Gold regarding them.

If there are more difficult verses to interpret, while reconciling them among themselves and the rest of the Bible, I haven't met with them yet.

And having said that, I have certainly found allowing the Bible to interpret the Bible, to be unbelievably awesome and am amazed just how often we can benefit from doing that, especially in the most difficult and obscure passages, while under the Lordship of Jesus!

Speaking of rare, how often could we all Increase our Blessing in understanding what God would have us to know, the MORE WE PRAY about these "things of God"?
Start a new thread, as the author of the OP has asked you.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
I don't want Hendriksen. I want you to answer.
I give best I know about all of it in the World or on the Net, etc.
I think I have already "gained the understanding" of the book, but I have doubts about you. :Cautious (That was an offensive statement. Just saying, you know. It is impolite to assume ignorance in a debate opponent.)
My desire is that someone discern the insight into the Divine Structure of Revelation, where each Vision covers the Time Frame from Jesus' First Appearance on Earth to His Second Coming.

Each Vision gives a description of the End of the World, beginning in Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Each Vision also contains a description of Jesus' First Coming, as in Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

You should see each Vision stacked on top of each other, because there is a description of Jesus' First Coming in every Vision and a description of Jesus' Second Coming.
But I suggest you start your own thread on this as you have been asked to by the author of the OP.
Did he? Me talking about Daniel's 70 Weeks. That's wild.
Start a new thread, as the author of the OP has asked you.
Alright already. Sounds like "https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...IQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw291cVfBKcANwerfmhCePAY
 
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John of Japan

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I give best I know about all of it in the World or on the Net, etc.
My pet peeve on the BB is long, involved posts with a bunch of quotes from someone other than the poster.
My desire is that someone discern the insight into the Divine Structure of Revelation, where each Vision covers the Time Frame from Jesus' First Appearance on Earth to His Second Coming.

Each Vision gives a description of the End of the World, beginning in Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Each Vision also contains a description of Jesus' First Coming, as in Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

You should see each Vision stacked on top of each other, because there is a description of Jesus' First Coming in every Vision and a description of Jesus' Second Coming.
Please quit telling me what I should do.
Did he? Me talking about Daniel's 70 Weeks. That's wild.
He did, when you brought the millennium into the thread.
Why would I want a PDF of Mauro's book?? I'm not amil and will never, ever be, even after I get to Heaven! :Geek
 
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Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Why would I want a PDF of Mauro's book?? I'm not amil and will never, ever be, even after I get to Heaven! :Geek
Sure you will be. We'll be saying "John is Amil now."

No, that's an Inside Baseball Preacher joke, in which, whoever assigns their pet End Times scheme to the deceased's name, first, 'wins' the stupid joke.

Supposed to be a little tongue in cheek hilarity.

But I would really be being gravely serious about it.

Sorry about that. Many people such as yourself may have even been taught and have it ingrained in their thinking that Amil is heresy. So, 'accusing' someone of it then is another strong insult.

Here's Seventy Weeks and Great Tribulation in a BB posting from 2023; Thread 'The Seventy Weeks and Great Tribulation by Phillip Mauro.' The Seventy Weeks and Great Tribulation by Phillip Mauro.

There is comprehensive, thorough treatment of more subjects in it than Jesus will Reign on Earth folks can count, must less tackle with gusto and still have them all consistently God-Honoring and having no contridictions.

And I'm sorry again. Any talk about something like an Earthly Reign of one thousand years by Jesus Christ without an actual bonafide Scripture support that can be read in the Bible as it's taught is just some figment of a sin-cursed man who is reasoning with a mind that is suffering from the effects of the Fall of Adam, by using a 'hermeneutic' of, "God is O.K. with us adding to His Word" when He says He is not O.K. with that kind of sophomoric tomfoolery.

Think about what you have tried to convince me of, with nothing to substantiate the first thing about Jesus Reigning on Earth for a thousand years that is anything more than a wild, fleshly, stretch.

He's not, simply because it is not in there. It's invented right before your very eyes.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
My pet peeve on the BB is long, involved posts with a bunch of quotes from someone other than the poster.
If you are not the least interested in God-Honoring material that is the best on the net that you can feel confident picking up and preaching the Truths of the Word of God, you need to put me on 'Ignore'. I don't feel sorry for you one bit.
Please quit telling me what I should do.
Yeah, it takes the Holy Spirit to Turn a sinner from the ERROR of their ways.
He did, when you brought the millennium into the thread.
Like these in his O.P.?

historic premillennialism

a subset of premillennialism

historic premillennialists view the church age

historic premillennialists view this passage with a preterist perspective?
For the sake of honesty, what are you supposed to be up to?

Adding 'a Reign of Jesus on Earth' to Revelation 20:4 to include that in your "MILLENNIALISMS", or to dump them as so much worthless trash? after making such a simpleton blunder?
 

John of Japan

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Sure you will be. We'll be saying "John is Amil now."

No, that's an Inside Baseball Preacher joke, in which, whoever assigns their pet End Times scheme to the deceased's name, first, 'wins' the stupid joke.

Supposed to be a little tongue in cheek hilarity.

But I would really be being gravely serious about it.

Sorry about that. Many people such as yourself may have even been taught and have it ingrained in their thinking that Amil is heresy. So, 'accusing' someone of it then is another strong insult.
No one ever taught me that amil is heresy, and I don't believe it. It's just mistaken.

No one ever forced me to be amil. When I grew up I studied the issue extensively and came to the Dispensational premil position. I was accepted to my mission board in 1979 as historic premil, studied further and came to Dispensationalism. Why premil? It's the only position that comes from a literal interpretation of the Bible. End of story for me. I'm not going to force some allegorical interpretation on the Word of God, particularly Rev. 20. There is no certainty in your Amil position because it is not a literal interpretation, taking the NT for exactly what it says.

Here is a quote by an amil scholar that proves my point: "In this book of symbols how long is a thousand years? All sorts of theories are proposed, none of which fully satisfy one" (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the NT).
Here's Seventy Weeks and Great Tribulation in a BB posting from 2023; Thread 'The Seventy Weeks and Great Tribulation by Phillip Mauro.' The Seventy Weeks and Great Tribulation by Phillip Mauro.

There is comprehensive, thorough treatment of more subjects in it than Jesus will Reign on Earth folks can count, must less tackle with gusto and still have them all consistently God-Honoring and having no contridictions.

And I'm sorry again. Any talk about something like an Earthly Reign of one thousand years by Jesus Christ without an actual bonafide Scripture support that can be read in the Bible as it's taught is just some figment of a sin-cursed man who is reasoning with a mind that is suffering from the effects of the Fall of Adam, by using a 'hermeneutic' of, "God is O.K. with us adding to His Word" when He says He is not O.K. with that kind of sophomoric tomfoolery.
I gave you plenty of Biblical evidence, but you just shrugged it off. And let me say that I've read many authors on prophecy, and not a one, not a single scholar of eschatology, takes your position that that 1000 years happens in Heaven.
Think about what you have tried to convince me of, with nothing to substantiate the first thing about Jesus Reigning on Earth for a thousand years that is anything more than a wild, fleshly, stretch.

He's not, simply because it is not in there. It's invented right before your very eyes.
Again, I gave you plenty of evidence. You did not take my position fairly enough to refute each of my points. And it is insulting to call my position "wild, fleshly stretch." It is the position of almost all churches in the first 3 centuries, and even today the position of the vast majority of evangelicals.
 

John of Japan

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If you are not the least interested in God-Honoring material that is the best on the net that you can feel confident picking up and preaching the Truths of the Word of God, you need to put me on 'Ignore'. I don't feel sorry for you one bit.

Yeah, it takes the Holy Spirit to Turn a sinner from the ERROR of their ways.

Like these in his O.P.?


For the sake of honesty, what are you supposed to be up to?

Adding 'a Reign of Jesus on Earth' to Revelation 20:4 to include that in your "MILLENNIALISMS", or to dump them as so much worthless trash? after making such a simpleton blunder?
These statements are incendiary. Why do you have to be so dismissive and insulting?
 

John of Japan

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What areas of agreement did John R. Rice had with Historic Premillennialists?
He believed in the 7 year tribulation and the 1000 year literal reign of Christ, but disagreed with Dispensationalism. He believed that the OT saints were included in the church, but did not accept replacement theology, and supported Israel strongly.
 

John of Japan

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Folks, when you are insulting and dismissive on the Internet (and I've done that too), you are not adorning the doctrine you are advocating, so people may dismiss you out of hand without even considering your arguments. "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things" (Titus 2:10).
 

Tea

Member
Folks, when you are insulting and dismissive on the Internet (and I've done that too), you are not adorning the doctrine you are advocating, so people may dismiss you out of hand without even considering your arguments.

Greetings, brother @John of Japan.

I suppose it's that fleshly aspect of us that leads to our shortcomings, especially on the internet. But you’re correct; I think we all have been at fault in that regard if we’re truly honest with ourselves. I’ve certainly issued my fair share of apologies over the years online.
 
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Dave G

Well-Known Member
I can't take the 'pre' or 'post' millennialist positions seriously, since there is no reference they can produce where Jesus is said to Reign on Earth for a Thousand-years/ a 'millennium'
There are many references, Alan.
Here are a few:

" And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more
. " ( Isaiah 2:2-4)

See also Zechariah 10-14, followed by this:

" And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
( Revelation 20:4-6 ).

Every reference that has to do with the last days where the Lord is said to rule and to reign from His father David's throne ( not His Father God's throne ), takes place at Jerusalem, from His temple that Ezekiel prophesied about, and during the 1,000 years after the first resurrection ( and before the second resurrection ).


Please re-read them, carefully, and especially Revelation.
I wish you well, sir.
 
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Dave G

Well-Known Member
I know that generally speaking the historic premillennialists view the church age as foreseen in the Old Testament. Dispensationalists do not. The gap makes sense in this case, if it was not foreseen.

Do historic premillennialists view this passage with a preterist perspective? That the 70 weeks have already been fulfilled? Or is it something similar to the dispensationalist view?
I'm what many here would call "historic pre-millennial", and I can say with all sincerity that I view none of the end times prophecies with anything approaching preterism or a-millennialism.

To me, the 70th "week" of Daniel is not triggered by the "rapture" ( please see Mathew 24 and Mark 13 for the timing of our catching away )... It is triggered by a covenant that is made with Israel and many other nations; The "great tribulation", or "time of Jacob's trouble" ( which lasts 42 months or 3.5 years ) is triggered by Anti-Christ sitting down in the mercy seat in a re-built temple at Jerusalem and declaring himself to be God; right in the middle of that 70th "week".

What is known as the "Church Age" is briefly mentioned ( in bits and pieces ) in the prophets ( Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Zechariah, the Psalms, etc ), but the actual time frame of 1,000 years ( that according to Revelation 20, takes place immediately prior to the Judgement ), is never specifically mentioned until the Lord Jesus shows John this detail in the book of Revelation.

As for sources or extra-biblical books to study for opinions on it, I know of none.
That doesn't mean that there aren't any out there ( because I'm sure that they do exist ), but I don't use them or recommend studying anything other than God's words for the believer.


At the end of the day, I firmly believe that Christians are given all that we need by God in the Person of His Spirit and in His divinely preserved words...
We don't need anything else to understand the Bible.
Rather, what we need to do is what Paul told Timothy:

" Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. "

" All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works
."


May God bless you.
 
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Truth Seeker

Member
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He believed in the 7 year tribulation and the 1000 year literal reign of Christ, but disagreed with Dispensationalism. He believed that the OT saints were included in the church, but did not accept replacement theology, and supported Israel strongly.
When did John R Rice teach that the OT saints were included in the church? Was it at His Ascension, Pentecost or at His second coming? Does this mean that Rice believed in Covenant Theology? If no, then what was his theological framework?
 

John of Japan

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When did John R Rice teach that the OT saints were included in the church? Was it at His Ascension, Pentecost or at His second coming?
This is best answered in his own words: "But there is a strong, blessed teaching in the Bible in which the word church is used also of the whole body of Christians, the born-again ones, the body of Christ, who will be called out to meet Christ in the air when He comes" (Churches and the Church, p. 10). So he believed that

Does this mean that Rice believed in Covenant Theology?
No, he rejected Covenant theology and replacement theology. He was pro-Israel, and led many Israel trips.
If no, then what was his theological framework?
He was somewhat idiosyncratic in his theology, not being Covenant or Dispensational. If I had to say, he was closer to Dispensationalism than Covenant Theology, but disagreed with it in some key ways. Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism, calls separating the church and Israel the sine qua non of Dispensationalism. Rice, though included OT saints in the church while rejecting replacement theology. And also, he was not post-trib like the usual historic premillennialist, but was pre-trib as well as premil.

I hope this answers your question. I've thought of writing a book on Rice's theology in addition to the biography of him I wrote, but haven't got there yet.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
He believed in the 7 year tribulation and the 1000 year literal reign of Christ, but disagreed with Dispensationalism. He believed that the OT saints were included in the church, but did not accept replacement theology, and supported Israel strongly.
Sounds like his views were pretty close to those held by Spurgeon himself regarding eschatology
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
I'm not going to force some allegorical interpretation on the Word of God, particularly Rev. 20.
You are not going to know anything the Bible teaches about The End of Time, and you don't want to know, because you pretend like copying what you've heard from someone who is also repeating the null and void excuse for dismissing Amil, since it is being treated as an Allegory. Null and Void. It makes you look like you would like Illiteracy to win over being literate.

Figurative speech is Literal Literate Liturature and should simply be seen for such to the readser, as there is a comparison with other Scriptures for Confirmation.

The bright idea that there is an underlying Literal Letterism wording that is valid for an Interpretation, first, and that Amils come along to say they don't believe it, and then start making up random dreams and fantasies about what they think the End Times need to look like in their mind, in radom fabricated Allegories using their carnal reasoning is dead wrong, Null and Void.

If anything, that is what happens when our opponents employ a Non-Hermeneutic for their Hermeneutic, when they say the Bible should be taken Literally unless the context calls for it. So, they bounce around, back and forth, within each of their individual Hermeneutical Laboratories, MENTALLY deciding exactly which verses THEY THINK SHOULD BE TAKEN LITERALLY AND THOSE THAT SHOULD BE INTERPRETED FIGURATIVELY.

That all results in making a mess of what was 180 degrees off to start with.

So, which one of you is the one who says what verse is to be Interpreted Literally and which as Literal Literary figurative Literature, TO BE SURE AND BE LITERATE IN THEIR DISCERNING OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE?

By the way, since it has been removed from most Biblical Publications and has apparently escaped your attention, God Reveals to Mankind in the first verse of Revelation that the Revelation He Sent by His Angel to John was "Signified", as we know it would be, as Revelation's Genre is Apocalyptic.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God Gave unto Him, to Shew unto His servants things which must shortly Come to Pass; and He Sent and Signified it by His Angel unto His servant John:" Revelation 1:1.

So, are we Instructed by God there that our first impulse should be to Interpret the Book of Revelation as if it is all Presented as and Proposed to be 'Literal', or
"Signified" the very way God just Revealed in Revelation 1:1?

That would need to be known first before finding an actual non-self-contradictory, false 'Hermeneutic' and learning how the Bible teaches us that it wants and needs and has to be read.

There is no certainty in your Amil position because it is not a literal interpretation, taking the NT for exactly what it says.
Jesus is a lamb? Really? A little woolly animal you find on farms?
All sorts of theories are proposed, none of which fully satisfy one" (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the NT).
A.T. Robinson's Word Pictures in the NT has benefited and contributed to my ministry by about .0027%. There are a lot of words in it, but along with any other work out there along these lines, it comes off shallow and thoroughly tautological, compared with a myriad of other writers on the subjects he covered.

The notion and concept of his book draws to mind the fact that the Bible is full of its use of figures of speech, or 'Word Pictures' as he said. Bullinger lists 219 different names for the variety of figures of speech in the Bible.
I've read many authors on prophecy, and not a one, not a single scholar of eschatology, takes your position that that 1000 years happens in Heaven.
So, they are all just attempting to make an argument from silence, where the word 'Earth' is not part of the narrative, nor can Revelation 20:4 be remotely associated with anything on Earth? Except where God's children on Earth are the recipients of Christ's Prayers, as He Rules from His Throne to which He Ascended in Revelation 4*, with whom He says He is also Ruling WITH, with no one He is Ruling from His Throne with being on Earth?

And you call that a Literal Literary Interpretation of Literature?

*"At once I was in the Spirit, and I saw a Throne standing in Heaven, with Someone Seated on it." Revelation 4:2.

Again, I gave you plenty of evidence. You did not take my position fairly enough to refute each of my points. And it is insulting to call my position "wild, fleshly stretch."
Is evidence for Jesus' Thousand-Year Reign to be found in the Bible that would make any allusion to it taking place anytime on Earth?
It is the position of almost all churches in the first 3 centuries
All of the Old Testament passages regarding the End Times are in perfect sync with every Tenet of Ahmil. So we know the Prophets knew the Mind of God, as those verses have been seen the play out in The New Testament During the First Century, as well as those that remain to be Fulfilled at the Return of Jesus.

And speaking of the Mind of God, Jesus Knows His Bible. Of course, Jesus and all of the writers in the New Testament were Amil according to everything they said about it, which are actually taught in these 66 verses from the New Testament, (not including Revelation); at THE SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST IS THE END of TIME, FOREVER.

Then, continuing from John in the New Testament, we reach Polycarp. The first two centuries of the church held both premillennial and amillennial opinions. What is now called "amillennialism" was widely pervasive in early Christianity. Polycarp, who was born in 69 AD, was an associate of the Apostle John (who wrote Revelation) and was one of the early church fathers, held the "amillennial" view.

Other church fathers of the second century who held this view were Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Cyprian. Justin Martyr (died 165), who had chiliastic tendencies in his theology, mentions differing views in his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, chapter 80: "I and many others are of this opinion [premillennialism], and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise." Etc., to this day, until Jesus Returns.
and even today the position of the vast majority of evangelicals.
So is 'works for Salvation' and 'infant baptism'.
These statements are incendiary. Why do you have to be so dismissive and insulting?
Because your position depends entirely on empty space.

That's the empty space in the Bible where nothing is taught.

You put 'Earth' + 'one thousand years', together, on your own.

There is no reason to combine them into any thought process that Comes from the Mind of God Revealed in the Bible.

I've got the same Bible you have.

Throw out vain imaginations.

Stop insulting the God Who's Mind has Thoughts Higher than your thoughts, because we can all see what He Wrote, or not.
Folks, when you are insulting and dismissive on the Internet (and I've done that too), you are not adorning the doctrine you are advocating, so people may dismiss you out of hand without even considering your arguments.
Cute philosophy. Unless you are perfectly adorning the whatever, you die. Ooops, you run from every provocation to Goods works. Go on. Put me on 'Ignore', goody, good man.
"Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things" (Titus 2:10).
Ye serpent, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the Eternal Reality of Ahmillennialism?
 

John of Japan

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Site Supporter
Ye serpent, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the Eternal Reality of Ahmillennialism?
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you" (Deut. 4:2).

Not only did you change Scripture, you mis-spelled your own position.

(And now I await more bile. :Biggrin)
 
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