History of Dispensational Theology and Israel

[Apreacher4Him]

Contextual, Grammatical, Literal - AKA Dispensational Theology

Contextual, Grammatical, Literal - AKA Dispensational Theology

Rather than redefine the OP in my own image like so many do...

Let me just say this... I agree!

And more to the point.... I would challenge any to show me one place
Where Literal, Grammatical, Historical and Contextual Interpretation of the Scriptures...

that is, to say, RIGHTLY dividing the Word of Truth does not bring a
consistent hermeneutic that may be thus labeled "dispensational"?


Dwight Pentecost in his Classic "Things to Come" made that point very early in His
work... "Dispensational Theology" does not need to be "systemytized" (sp?)
as such to fit some "mold" like other "historical" systems of interpretation.

Simply because a consistent use of Literal, Grammatical, Historical and Contextual interpretation of the Precious word of God will lead us to the proper distinctions of terms, periods, Blessed Hopes, and future for the Kingdom of God in all its Facets.

"Dispensational Theology" as it is "understood" is simply the "result" not the cause of a proper understanding and interpretation of the Scriptures.

But, start with what is considered "dispensational" lol.... and find one place in Scripture where such a rendering is not found when you interpret the Scripture Literally, Gramatically, Historically, and Contextually... [even so-called dual interpretations in select "prophecies of old time" are only found as one finds the plain sense of Scripture - Comparing Scripture with Scripture as its own best commentary]

God bless.

 

[skypair]

Putting these quotes together, Chafer is saying that in the future, most of the nation of Israel will repent at once, believe in Christ, and be saved by Jesus' blood.

Without reading the other responses, I would agree. Rom 11:26 says, "...and then shall all Israel be saved." That is, they will be resurrected by Christ, receive Christ, be indwelt by the Spirit for the remainder of the MK.

The "TWO salvations" that you seem to refer to are 1) the salvation of the church wherein we are saved and resurrected spiritually from life by the gospel of grace and 2) the salvation of believing Israel who were saved by the gospel of the kingdom and will be resurrected into it to receive a "heart of flesh."

skypair

 

[skypair]

But either way, salvation is only through/by "JESUS".

Hey, aren't you on the wrong board, bro?? :laugh: Or have I just not noticed?? Here's to ya!

skypair

 

[skypair]

Your point #6 above: God has 2 peoples with 2 separate destinies: Israel (earthly) and the Church (heavenly).

My 1st question is: Since the millennial kingdom lasts only 1000 years and then God creats a new heaven and new earth because the first heaven and first earth are done away with [Revelation 21:1], what happens to Israel, the earthly people, since Revelation 21, 22 clearly teach that this is the eternal home of the Church, the bride of Jesus Christ?

New Jerusalem is "the eternal home of the Church." They inherit the New Earth.

Jesus made an offer of the literal Kingdom to Israel; since Israel rejected it, it is postponed.

My 2nd question is: If this is true how could Jesus Christ say in John 17:4 I have finished the work which thou gvest me to do?.

Israel will come into Christ in the Millennial Kingdom, bro. They will at last be able to apply His "work" to their sins and their lives, Rom 5:10. "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

Good question for you: When were you resurrected into a glorified body? And how about the OT saints?

skypair

 

[skypair]

"God is righteously free to act in behalf of sinners only on the ground of the fact that the Lamb of God has taken away their sins.
(Vol. 3, Page 108.)

And when do they even "discover" the Lamb? In the TRIBULATION -- in The Revelation of the Lamb!

It teaches, and has always taught, that as far as salvation goes, all are one in Christ Jesus.

Yes, it teaches that all must come through Christ. But there was NO known Christ in the OT. Abraham was not Christ -- Moses was not Christ -- David was not Christ! All these were "images" of Christ.

Can you wrap you mind around it? Wwe KNOW Christ. They will have to be resurrected bodily before they know Christ.

skypair

 

[skypair]

Actually, the covenant of Jeremiah chapter 31 is apply to us as Church that Christ died on the cross. It already fulfilled. When Christ took the supper, and drink the cup, and he said, 'This is the new testament', he spoken of the new covenant.

There is no separate between Israel and Church. Christ died for the whole world both Jews and Gentiles.

How many OT saints drank the cup of the new covenant, DTP??

skypair

 

[DeafPosttrib]

skypair,

During Old Testament period, all saints were looking forward for the new covenant in their faith. They all already died before Christ came to Calvary. But, NOW they are share in the new covenant by through Christ's blood. Christ's blood reconciled all O.T. saints and N.T. saints at once. Both O.T. saints and N.T. saints are share on the same salvation or in the same boat - Jesus Christ, no other else.

Therefore, all O.T. and N.T. saints are God's Bride- one family.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Lukasaurus]

No they weren't looking for Christ. Look at what they say.

The Israelites were foolish.

Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

They hadn't even heard the commandments when they said this.

In Exodus 24, they say it again, but all they have now is the Moral Law, and the Civil Law. They don't even have a plan of redemption. God hasn't even told them how they can be forgiven if they break the moral or civil law. He has not given them any laws regarding sacrifices or forgiveness.

Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

Moses goes up again - He receives the stone tablets of the testimony, upon which are written the whole Law, including the religious law of sacrifices and redemption from sin.

He comes down, and in the short space that he has been with God, the people are already sinning. Remember that they said "WE WILL DO". And remember that they had no plan of redemption from God at this time.

Moses breaks the tablets. Why? Because if that Law had stood unbroken, all of Israel would be condemned and consumed then and there. God intended to do this, but Moses intercedes for them. He "broke" the curse of the Law of God.

You cannot possibly say that Israel "looked forward to the cross, while we look back". They didn't know what the cross was. They didn't know anything of the blood atonement, other than their own sacrifices. Israel had much physical blessing, but little spiritual revelation. They knew little about heaven and hell, the rapture, the tribulation, if anything. All they knew was that God was going to redeem them and give them a Kingdom.

The broken tablets are placed in the ark of the testimony. When the blood is sprinkled on the ark from the animal sacrifice, God sees the broken tablets inside. Isn't the Bible a wonderful book when we learn it (I haven't learnt even a tenth of what could be learnt from it, but I try).

Now, I am not saying Israel was saved by works. They couldn't be. But they were saved by faith + law. When I say law, I mean the sacrifices of the law.

And here is the confusing bit. I say the Israelites were saved by faith + law, and people think I mean that keeping the law cleansed them from their sins and they went to heaven when they died. Wrong.

The plan of salvation for the Israelites in the OT was - Believe God, by Faith keep the Law. If they broke God's law, give the required sacrifice by faith. When they died, if they died fulfilling those requirements, they went to Abraham's Bosom to wait. When Christ died, HE covered their sins, and took them to heaven. We are all saved eternally by Christ (OT and NT saints), but they had a halfway point to reach, by law. In order for them to be washed by Christ, they had to get to Abraham's Bosom (paradise), by faith + law.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

There is the only one same plan of salvation throughout from O.T. to N.T. is by the faith only, plus nothing.

O.T. saints were saved by faith same as N.T. saints are saved by faith.

Both O.T. saints and N.T. saints put their faith toward Christ(Calvary) on the same point, nothing other else.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Lukasaurus]

But where is that in the scripture? You can point to Abraham in Romans 4:5 but he WAS under Grace. Where does it say that Moses was justified by faith in Christ alone? Or that Israel was?

There is not a single verse in scripture to back up what you are saying.

These are the ramifications of your "looking forward to the cross" teaching.

First of all, let me say it's a minor point of contention. You and I were not in the Old Testament, we are saved by grace today, and in all honesty, it doesn't matter how they got saved. But I do think it is important to understand what the Bible says on this matter, in order to understand God's plan for the ages through the various dispensations.


i) If they looked forward to the cross, they were looking forward to something none of them had ever heard about. Even in Isaiah 53, there is no resurrection of the dead, there is no gospel of believing and salvation by faith alone.

ii) What was the purpose of the sacrifices? If they were just a picture of things to come, would you say that the sacrifices were unneccesary, because their sins were "under the blood" - which had not even been shed yet. If the sacrifices were just an ordinance, as baptism is just an ordinance today, what happened if they did not sacrifice for their sins?

iii) You are implying that Old Testament Jews went straight to heaven after death. Either that, or you are implying that they were saved twice. Once when they "believed On Christ" even though they didn't even know who He was, and then again when He died for them and went to Abraham's bosom and led captivity captive.

I posted several reasons above why they are "saved" by faith + law keeping (including the sacrifices), and you haven't addressed a single one. I would love to discuss it brother, but you can't just post a cliche phrase and praise the Lord.

 

[Marcia]

But where is that in the scripture? You can point to Abraham in Romans 4:5 but he WAS under Grace. Where does it say that Moses was justified by faith in Christ alone? Or that Israel was?

There is not a single verse in scripture to back up what you are saying.

They were justified by faith in God. The sacrifices did not erase their sins:

For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Heb. 10:4

 

[Lukasaurus]

Yes, I addressed that in my previous post.

So when they died, where did the Old Testament saints go?

 

[Marcia]

Yes, I addressed that in my previous post.

So when they died, where did the Old Testament saints go?

To Abraham's bosom. Some believe that was a place for believers in God in Sheol. TTT, I am not sure where they went then, but I know they are in heaven now.

 

[Lukasaurus]

But why didn't they go to heaven then? If they were justified by faith, and declared righteous by God, why didn't they go to heaven?

What I have said is that they were not justified by faith alone, but by faith and law keeping. The sacrifices COVERED their sins, but did not take them away.

Those who had the sin covering went to Abraham's Bosom, until Christ died and took their sins away. They didn't need faith for this second part, because they were already in Abraham's Bosom, and Christ came and physically appeared to them. They saw him and believed and were taken to heaven.

EDIT: I should clarify that the sin covering or sin offering meant nothing if they did it without faith. But it was required.

 

[Marcia]

But why didn't they go to heaven then? If they were justified by faith, and declared righteous by God, why didn't they go to heaven?

Some believe they could not go to heaven until Jesus came and resurrected and ascended to heaven in his resurrected body.

What I have said is that they were not justified by faith alone, but by faith and law keeping. The sacrifices COVERED their sins, but did not take them away

I have to disagree that they were justified by faith and law keeping. In fact, God got mad quite often because they did not keep the law.

 

[Lukasaurus]

That's my point. What happened when those who said they would keep all the commandments of God in Exodus 19 were found bowing down to Idols in Exodus 31. They were all killed and went to hell.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Lukasaurus,

Excuse me, please removed your picture at above left side - "Ruckman Knight".

Dr. Peter Ruckman is not God. He is sinner like us. Even he got divorced three times. Sorry for being off the point on this topic.

By the way,

Many saying there were no unconditional security salvation during Old Testament time. Because God was mean and restrict toward Israel, when they sinned, then God killed them without mercy. Till the New Testament period come, then here comes unconditional security salvation with "Grace".

Actually, grace was already there in the O.T. time. Noah found the grace of God, because he was walked with God.

Even, with many O.T. saints like, Adam, Abel, Abraham were saved by their faith, while the laws were not yet written or given. Same with us, we are saved by faith.

I believe there always been conditional security salvation throughout from O.t. time to today, nothing chnage of God's plan of salvation.

I know many Baptists like calvinists would not agree with me.

But, I can see only one plan of salvation from O.T. to N.T. by base on the faith only.

Faith is more than just "believed", it shows of actions while believing same time. Hebrews chapter 11 is a good example of O.T. saints' faith. These are same as we are having faith today. Nothing change.

Even, when after Satan("Antichrist") loosed out of the way, he shall make war against Christians, they will be force to receive the mark. EVEN, the grace is always still there(Holy Spirit will never leave us). There will be remain conditional security salvation same as we are facing today even, O.T. saints faced it. Nothing change plan of salvation. There is alwaus same salavation from O.T. and N.T. base on the faith.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[JDale]

But where is that in the scripture? You can point to Abraham in Romans 4:5 but he WAS under Grace. Where does it say that Moses was justified by faith in Christ alone?

Hebrews 11.

And yes, I'm a Dispensational Premillennialist.

JDale

 

[JDale]

But why didn't they go to heaven then? If they were justified by faith, and declared righteous by God, why didn't they go to heaven?

What I have said is that they were not justified by faith alone, but by faith and law keeping. The sacrifices COVERED their sins, but did not take them away.

Those who had the sin covering went to Abraham's Bosom, until Christ died and took their sins away. They didn't need faith for this second part, because they were already in Abraham's Bosom, and Christ came and physically appeared to them. They saw him and believed and were taken to heaven.

EDIT: I should clarify that the sin covering or sin offering meant nothing if they did it without faith. But it was required.

For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give [it]: thou delightest not in burnt offering.The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (Psalm 51:16,17)


And Samuel said, Hath the LORD [as great] delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey [is] better than sacrifice, [and] to hearken than the fat of rams (I Samuel 15:22).

JDale

 

[JDale]

What I have said is that they were not justified by faith alone, but by faith and law keeping.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. (Galatians 3:11)


JDale