history of the doctrine of the rapture

[LadyEagle]

I find it a little amusing that the "clear and obvious" doctrine of pretrib was missed for 1800 years.

What's so incredulous about being missed for 1800 years (or more)? These things were supposed to be "sealed up" until the end times. So, it's not incredible or amusing at all; it is just as God told Daniel it would be.

Daniel 12:[6] And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

[7] And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

[8] And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

We are now living in the End Times. The End Times went into full swing when Israel once again became a nation in 1948. My generation shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled (says Jesus in parable of the fig tree).

It is how it is supposed to be. Nothing amusing or incredible about it.

As the prophet said, "Let he who has ears to hear...."

 

[tyndale1946]

Originally posted by Ps104_33:
I am just concerned that so many good men of God prior to Darby seemed to miss it.

I have one question and everyone can jump on me at once if you want!... Would the God of Heaven hide this great doctrine of the rapture for 1,800 years? ... If so how can you preach the full counsel of God and did not our forefathers before us preach it also?... If they did show me where it is?... I'm also interested in the symbolisms in the book of Revelation that seem to change with every new prophet that comes on the scene?... New book!... New symbolisms that change with every generation?... Jesus will come to take all his people home... End of story!... Brother Glen

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by SheEagle9/11:
What's so incredulous about being missed for 1800 years (or more)? These things were supposed to be "sealed up" until the end times. So, it's not incredible or amusing at all; it is just as God told Daniel it would be.

That is exactly the type of exegesis that caused me to abandon the pretrib view. Where in Daniel does it talk about sealing up the pretrib view, to be revealed at the end? What was the "blessed hope" until it was revealed? What of the pretrib understanding of "imminence"?

We are now living in the End Times. The End Times went into full swing when Israel once again became a nation in 1948. My generation shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled (says Jesus in parable of the fig tree).

Again, misinterpretation of Christ's words (and exactly one of the failed interpretations of "88 reasons for 1988".

 

[Steve K.]

Matt. 25 Tells of virgins going out to meet the bridegroom and 5 going to the marriage.They are not the bride. Those of us that are saved are the bride.Those virgins are a mid-trib rapture of folks who will be guests at the wedding.Hence a pre-trib rapture is rightly dividing the scriptures.See Luke 12:36 when the lord comes "from the wedding" .It has already taken place and the trib is going on down here.You can stay if you like but I am outa here at the trumpet blast.

 

[LadyEagle]

Me, too, Steve K! Me, too...Preach it!

When Daniel was told to seal up the book until the end times, that's good enough explanation for me. So now we know we're at the end times. More than ever, it's time to: Get Right or Get Left!

And aren't we supposed to be looking for His return? Isn't there a special crown or reward for that? Hmmm.....

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
Those virgins are a mid-trib rapture of folks who will be guests at the wedding.Hence a pre-trib rapture is rightly dividing the scriptures.

The virgins are a midtrib rapture, therefore pretrib is rightly dividing the scriptures? Sorry, but I don't understand your interpretation, or the logic that lead to your conclusion about rightly dividing.

You can stay if you like but I am outa here at the trumpet blast.

Is has nothing to do with "want". It is about what scripture says. All saints are "outta here" at the trumpet blast, but the issue is about when that trumpet blasts. Study the trumpet blast, and you actually come to the same conclusion as I did, even though I didn't want to come to that conclusion.

[ January 12, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by SheEagle9/11:

When Daniel was told to seal up the book until the end times, that's good enough explanation for me. So now we know we're at the end times.

Do you not think end time doctrine was revealed in the New Testament? If it was sealed from Daniel's time until now, what's going on in the NT? The "end times" did not start in 1948, but much, much earlier.

 

[Steve K.]

Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Steve K.:
Those virgins are a mid-trib rapture of folks who will be guests at the wedding.Hence a pre-trib rapture is rightly dividing the scriptures.

The virgins are a midtrib rapture, therefore pretrib is rightly dividing the scriptures? Sorry, but I don't understand your interpretation, or the logic that lead to your conclusion about rightly dividing.

You can stay if you like but I am outa here at the trumpet blast.

Is has nothing to do with "want". It is about what scripture says. All saints are "outta here" at the trumpet blast, but the issue is about when that trumpet blasts. Study the trumpet blast, and you actually come to the same conclusion as I did, even though I didn't want to come to that conclusion. </font>[/QUOTE]No Brian I do not come to the same conclusion as you after much study .You see I believe the VERY words of God whether it is from or to or whatever.I am beginning to see a trend in your posts and I am currently summing up yours and others for a very interesting thread.

 

[Jacob]

Originally posted by Ps104_33:
Case closed as far as I am concerned.

You're a joke. As far as you where concerned the "Case" was padlocked shut from your very first post. You did a poor job of making a setup look like an honest, open query - show some integrity.

Jacob.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
You see I believe the VERY words of God whether it is from or to or whatever.I am beginning to see a trend in your posts and I am currently summing up yours and others for a very interesting thread.

Ah, I see. I am not KJV-only, so I don't know how to understand my Bible - is that what you're saying?

 

[Steve K.]

Must be the Holy Spirit convicting you. Noone else said anyhting about the KING JAMES BIBLE.

 

[postrib]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
...I'm content to prove the pretribulation
rapture from the Holy Bible...

Note that no scripture promises us a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). We Christians must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).

http://www.geocities.com/postrib

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
Must be the Holy Spirit convicting you. Noone else said anyhting about the KING JAMES BIBLE.

No, I've just been around the block enough times to know what KJV-onlyists sometimes imply by phrases like "You see I believe the VERY words of God", etc. If your comment was not implying this, what were you implying?

 

[postrib]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
...Jesus will come to take all his people home...

Note that no verse says that the rapture will take anyone any higher than the clouds.

Jesus said: "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" (John 14:3). Note that he didn't say he would come back before the tribulation or that he would take us into heaven.

Jesus said: "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:3). Note that he says we will be where he is after he comes again. He doesn't say he will turn around and go back into heaven. And indeed we will be where he is after he comes again: on the earth during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

I believe Jesus said "In my Father's house are many mansions... I go to prepare a place for you," to show why he was going, not why he was coming back, and to show that he still has great and eternal plans for us in New Jerusalem, where the Father will dwell with us after the millennium: "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God" (Revelation 21:2-3).

[ January 12, 2003, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: postrib ]

 

[Steve K.]

Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Steve K.:
Must be the Holy Spirit convicting you. Noone else said anyhting about the KING JAMES BIBLE.

No, I've just been around the block enough times to know what KJV-onlyists sometimes imply by phrases like "You see I believe the VERY words of God", etc. If your comment was not implying this, what were you implying?</font>[/QUOTE]Not implying anything,just like God means what he says,every word.But if you are being convicted I suggest you yield instead of making up silly threads.

 

[Steve K.]

Originally posted by postrib:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tyndale1946:
...Jesus will come to take all his people home...

Note that no verse says that the rapture will take anyone any higher than the clouds.

Jesus said: "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" (John 14:3). Note that he didn't say he would come back before the tribulation or that he would take us into heaven.

Jesus said: "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:3). Note that he says we will be where he is after he comes again. He doesn't say he will turn around and go back into heaven. And indeed we will be where he is after he comes again: on the earth during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

I believe Jesus said "In my Father's house are many mansions... I go to prepare a place for you," to show why he was going, not why he was coming back, and to show that he still has great and eternal plans for us in New Jerusalem, where the Father will dwell with us after the millennium: "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God" (Revelation 21:2-3).</font>[/QUOTE]Yes those of us that are saved will be here in the millenium but the bible clearly teaches that we COME BACK with him after the trib.

 

[BrianT]

I am not being convicted, I am just trying to understand what you mean by "You see I believe the VERY words of God whether it is from or to or whatever.I am beginning to see a trend in your posts". It is so hard to explain yourself?

 

[Steve K.]

Brian what are you having so much trouble understanding? This is good material for my summary.I hope you do not mind if I quote you on another thread in the future.HAVE A NICE DAY!

 

[Steve K.]

Brian what are you having so much trouble understanding? This is good material for my summary.I hope you do not mind if I quote you on another thread in the future.HAVE A NICE DAY!

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Steve K.:
the bible clearly teaches that we COME BACK with him after the trib.

The Bible teaches that some will come back with him (those that have died previously) Some will be here, and he comes for them (those that are still alive). He comes, both "for" and "with" the saints, at the same time.