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Holding Hands
- Thread starter Clean1
- Start date
Gwen... you asked if i were engaged if would i kiss my fiance. I would have to say no on that because we are not married yet. haveing a fiance is still, if you think about, kinda like dating. you haven't married him/her yet. yes your planning too but its not official untill you say "I do." you could find out that that person wasn't the one God actually has for you and you could break up before it was too late. plus... i find see alot of people committing fornication while they are engaged because they think, "well im getting married anyway so it doesn't matter." it does matter because your not man and wife yet. same thing goes for kissing. make that even more special... your first kiss should be at the marriage altar.
No disrespect intended, but no, it is not. I believe you think this way due to your age. This is not a bad thing. At 15, you're not yet wired to think about ebngagement. That's not a bad thing, it just means God ain't finished with ya yet
When a person gets engaged, it's completely different than dating. You're made a commitment to marry a person, and have done so by giving an engagement ring, and setting a date (or the two of you set a date pretty quickly thereafter). You've from that point on committed yourself to that person. You plan on a home, commit finances, iron out how the home will run, etc. Engagement is not something to be taken lightly. You're not engaged without a ring and a date.
While I'm sure there are people who do this, I've got to ask how you know they're doing this in teh first place? I know many people who "assume" that this is going on (many of them Christians), when it's not. I think there are more people than we give credit to who refrain from sex until marriage. They simply don't wear their "bedroom antics" on their sleeve. That's no one's business.
Now, I'm glad to see you've decided not to kiss until you're married, but hold on a moment. To equate permarital kissing with fornication, I'm sorry, but that's not scriptural. Plus, it's a bit self-righteous.
Says who? Not scripture. Again, if that's what you choose to do, then I aplaud you. But don't inject your own view into scripture. Learn to discern. If you don't, you're going to end up injecting a lot of manmade doctrine into scripture. People do it all the time.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Wow. You know that may sound great on paper, but I am just not sure it is doable. But hey more power to ya if you can....but as John said, there is no Scripture to support that one.
Bapmom and PamelaK,
I'm not convinced that scripture mandates a lack of hand holding. That being said, we should make sure as Christians that we avoid the world's pitfalls. If this is clean1's way of doing this, then more power to her. I don't think that rule applys to everyone though. My point was that we should also be observent of their (and our) emotional relationships and in many ways more so. I agree with both of your answers to the questions I raised. Thanks for the response and God bless.
I'm not convinced that scripture mandates a lack of hand holding. That being said, we should make sure as Christians that we avoid the world's pitfalls. If this is clean1's way of doing this, then more power to her. I don't think that rule applys to everyone though. My point was that we should also be observent of their (and our) emotional relationships and in many ways more so. I agree with both of your answers to the questions I raised. Thanks for the response and God bless.
DesiderioDomini
New Member
As a youth minister, I can see both sides here.
1. We must applaud (as many have) the convictions of these young people to stay far away from temptation. IF they feel God has led them not to hold hands, then we praise God for their conviction.
2. WE MUST TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PERSONAL CONVICTION AND SCRIPTURAL TRUTH. This is very important. I ask those young people here to read Romans 14 & 1 Corinthians 8. Both deal with issues which are not addressed in scripture, and how to handle them. When you are convicted of things that are not addressed in scripture, YOU HAVE CERTAIN COMMANDMENTS TO FOLLOW. They are speficially listed in 1 Corinthians 8.
3. If anyone tries to claim that these passages only speak of eating meat, read a little further to 1 Corinthians 9:9-10. These passages are meant to cover anything that was not covered in scripture.
4. The main commandment is that you are not to judge others for not being convicted the same as you are. You are not to force this upon others, because "Why am I to be subject to another man's conviction". Do not waiver in your conviction to not hold hands, but accept your brother and sister in christ who do, and never even consider this fact as a fault on their part.
Our youth need to keep these convictions, but they also need to learn how to handle them BIBLICALLY, not "fundamental baptistly".
1. We must applaud (as many have) the convictions of these young people to stay far away from temptation. IF they feel God has led them not to hold hands, then we praise God for their conviction.
2. WE MUST TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PERSONAL CONVICTION AND SCRIPTURAL TRUTH. This is very important. I ask those young people here to read Romans 14 & 1 Corinthians 8. Both deal with issues which are not addressed in scripture, and how to handle them. When you are convicted of things that are not addressed in scripture, YOU HAVE CERTAIN COMMANDMENTS TO FOLLOW. They are speficially listed in 1 Corinthians 8.
3. If anyone tries to claim that these passages only speak of eating meat, read a little further to 1 Corinthians 9:9-10. These passages are meant to cover anything that was not covered in scripture.
4. The main commandment is that you are not to judge others for not being convicted the same as you are. You are not to force this upon others, because "Why am I to be subject to another man's conviction". Do not waiver in your conviction to not hold hands, but accept your brother and sister in christ who do, and never even consider this fact as a fault on their part.
Our youth need to keep these convictions, but they also need to learn how to handle them BIBLICALLY, not "fundamental baptistly".
PastorSBC,
I understand why you'd be skeptical, but it is definitely still doable these days....just like it has been doable in any other age of history.
My husband and I can say it, as can many other people we know. We are only in our early 30s. We know many young people whose goal is this, and they are well on their way to meeting it. We also know many young couples who can say it now that they are married.
I just wanted you to know, don't give up on it being a "doable" scenario. People are just as able to stay pure for their spouse as they were in the "good old days."
I understand why you'd be skeptical, but it is definitely still doable these days....just like it has been doable in any other age of history.
My husband and I can say it, as can many other people we know. We are only in our early 30s. We know many young people whose goal is this, and they are well on their way to meeting it. We also know many young couples who can say it now that they are married.
I just wanted you to know, don't give up on it being a "doable" scenario. People are just as able to stay pure for their spouse as they were in the "good old days."
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
So if you kiss someone before you are married, you are not pure?Originally posted by bapmom:
People are just as able to stay pure for their spouse as they were in the "good old days."
See the problem here is there is no Scripture to support that concept. That is a man made conviction that has no biblical support.
If that is your conviction then that is great. Let's just not pretend that it is the Biblical concept of purity.
Now, before you start booing and hissing at me, please read all of what Im saying next.
I don't necessarily think we have to have explicit chapter and verse in the BIble in order to set a personal standard for our own selves. I even think its ok to RECOMMEND a certain stance using only Bible principles. In other words, just because the Bible does not say to specifically not kiss or hold hands, does not mean that this is not the wisest course of action.
Do you see what Im saying? Based on Biblical principles (its not good for a man to touch a woman, flee YOUTHFUL lusts, abstain from appearance of evil...etc) Im definitely not going to tell my kids that they ought to practice any part of the physical relationship.
I also will not dogmatically declare that "God hath said" and I dont think anyone else in here has said that, either.
So some are actin' here like certain of us are claiming more than I think we are. We are basing these things on not only Biblical principle, but common sense and observations about the physical world around us.
As gekko very wisely commented, I don't know where my kid's line is before he will lose his self-control until it is forever too late.
I just wanted to clarify that.
I don't necessarily think we have to have explicit chapter and verse in the BIble in order to set a personal standard for our own selves. I even think its ok to RECOMMEND a certain stance using only Bible principles. In other words, just because the Bible does not say to specifically not kiss or hold hands, does not mean that this is not the wisest course of action.
Do you see what Im saying? Based on Biblical principles (its not good for a man to touch a woman, flee YOUTHFUL lusts, abstain from appearance of evil...etc) Im definitely not going to tell my kids that they ought to practice any part of the physical relationship.
I also will not dogmatically declare that "God hath said" and I dont think anyone else in here has said that, either.
So some are actin' here like certain of us are claiming more than I think we are. We are basing these things on not only Biblical principle, but common sense and observations about the physical world around us.
As gekko very wisely commented, I don't know where my kid's line is before he will lose his self-control until it is forever too late.
I just wanted to clarify that.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Bap, I really have no problem with you conviction. I just don't want you to make it the Biblical standard for purity. There is no Scripture to support that one must have not kissed someone to be pure for their marriage.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Personal standards are often judged by others as pharaseeism.
I applaud the young people here for there views. There is no doubt that you cannot use this one verse to "make a law" against hand holding. That does not mean that a church cannot set such a standard for their young people. It is, imho, something that young people need to be VERY careful of. If there is nothing wrong with it, than would it be acceptable for me to walk down the road hand in hand with a friend who is a woman?
I also agree that not kissing until the altar is VERY doable for committed Christian young people.
G
Glory-to-God
Guest
I am in agreement with C4K... PamelaK and Bapmom on this like I said earlier...
May I recommend a great book for teenagers regarding this subject.
Joshua Harris's
I KISSED DATING GOODBYE and
BOY MEETS GIRL say hello to courtship
[ November 15, 2005, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: Glory-to-God ]
May I recommend a great book for teenagers regarding this subject.
Joshua Harris's
I KISSED DATING GOODBYE and
BOY MEETS GIRL say hello to courtship
[ November 15, 2005, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: Glory-to-God ]