HOUSE APPROVES “ANTI-HATE” BILL

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
----"but also to prevent abuses of free speech."--------------------------------------------------

To put a man through a hearing and fine him, for simply putting verses in the paper, is the ultimate abuse of free speech. Has any other religion been fined in canada? "Sticks and stone can break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unless of course one hates Christ and wants to supress his voice in the world. Then we would have to claim his words hurt, so we can shut him up.

No religion was fined in Canada. An individual was for trying to incite hate against homosexuals.

Do you really believe Christ would publish an ad like that? I believe Christ would eat in the homes of homosexuals, to the chagrin of the religious conservatives of today.

And before you say it, no, he would not condone their sinful behaviour.

 

[Bunyon]

-----"Do you really believe Christ would publish an ad like that? I believe Christ would eat in the homes of homosexuals, to the chagrin of the religious conservatives of today."-----------------

I think if Christ would have been faced with a well organized, agressive, poitically active, homosexual movement, he would have been as direct with them as he was with the pharisees. He might even cite scripture. Maybe even calling them a "brood of vipers" or somethig. Imaging that! And in Canada, I bet he would have been fined for it.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
-----"Do you really believe Christ would publish an ad like that? I believe Christ would eat in the homes of homosexuals, to the chagrin of the religious conservatives of today."-----------------

I think if Christ would have been faced with a well organized, agressive, poitically active, homosexual movement, he would have been as direct with them as he was with the pharisees. He might even cite scripture. Imaging that! And in Canada, I bet he would have been fined for it.

Maybe, just as he would be with a well organized, aggressive, politically active religious movement.

I wonder how well organized, aggressive and politically active the Jewish tax collectors were in 1st century Palestine.

 

[Bunyon]

The point is, He would have told them it was wrong and probably cited scripture, which is what the man in Canada did. So how can you condone the gov persecuting him if he did what christ would have done. He did not advise doing anything violent or hurtful. Just presented scriputre. But that is the point. If the mere assertion of scripture is hateful, than none of us are safe.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
The point is, He would have told them it was wrong and probably cited scripture,

So that is what you believe Jesus talked about in his dinners with tax collectors and prostitutes? Quoting the ten commandments to them? No wonder he was so popular. They have never heard those things before from the Pharisees.

Originally posted by Bunyon:
which is what the man in Canada did. So how can you condone the gov persecuting him if he did what christ would have done. He did not advise doing anything violent or hurtful. Just presented scriputre. But that is the point. If the mere assertion of scripture is hateful, than none of us are safe.

The mere assertation of scripture is not hateful and is protected under Bill C-250.

 

[Bunyon]

"So that is what you believe Jesus talked about in his dinners with tax collectors and prostitutes?"---------------------------------

You have idealized Jesus into a big huggy teddy bear who never hurt anyone's feeings. Jesus was both loving and straight forward. The tax collector and prostitute were both repentant, had they not been he would have told them the truth, plain and simple.

Did the fact that Abortion was illigal in all 50 states, until the supreme court dictated other wise stop abortion from becomming common place.
That little sentance you have so much confidence in will not stop the gov. of canada from persecuting christians for simply espousing christian beliefs publicly.

So explain to me why the canadians mans presentation of scripture in the newpaper is hateful.

I still don't see how you can say that the mere presentation of scripture in a newpaper is hateful.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
"So that is what you believe Jesus talked about in his dinners with tax collectors and prostitutes?"---------------------------------

You have idealized Jesus into a big huggy teddy bear who never hurt anyone's feeings. Jesus was both loving and straight forward. The tax collector and prostitute were both repentant, had they not been he would have told them the truth, plain and simple.

I agree that Jesus was not afraid of hurting peoples feelings. I think you hit the nail on the head, he was both loving and straight forward about sin. I don't believe he just reiterated what the unloving pharisees did by pointing out what they already knew was sinful in their lives.

 

[Bunyon]

"I don't believe he just reiterated what the unloving pharisees did by pointing out what they already knew was sinful in their lives"----------

I agree. But I think the Canadian gov. would have a problem with him if he showed up at a temple and pointed his finger and told them what he thought. I don't think that one sentence would save him.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
"I don't believe he just reiterated what the unloving pharisees did by pointing out what they already knew was sinful in their lives"----------

I agree. But I think the Canadian gov. would have a problem with him if he showed up at a temple and pointed his finger and told them what he thought. I don't think that one sentence would save him.

But the one sentence of the 1st ammendment in the US Constitution would.

As I said sarcasticly several pages ago, "help us americans, our government is persecuting us and us weak over-tolerant Christian Canadians don't know how to stand up to them and fight for our rights."

You really have no idea of what happens up here in Canada or how the justice system works. Please talk to me again when religious folks not promoting hate are actually arrested.

 

[Bunyon]

As I recall, I had to inform you of the christian man who was fined in Canada, and that is one of only several incidents.

If you can't see the danger in your own country, you certainly aren't going to see the danger in ours. Perhaps, Bush's supreme court pics will change things, but if you had any idea how things are, you would realize we are not ruled by the constitution anymore, but by nine judges, who aren't afraid to dictate. Hopefully we will leave the persecution of Christians to the folks north of the boarder.

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bunyon:
----"but also to prevent abuses of free speech."--------------------------------------------------

To put a man through a hearing and fine him, for simply putting verses in the paper, is the ultimate abuse of free speech. Has any other religion been fined in canada? "Sticks and stone can break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unless of course one hates Christ and wants to supress his voice in the world. Then we would have to claim his words hurt, so we can shut him up.

No religion was fined in Canada. An individual was for trying to incite hate against homosexuals.

Do you really believe Christ would publish an ad like that? I believe Christ would eat in the homes of homosexuals, to the chagrin of the religious conservatives of today.

And before you say it, no, he would not condone their sinful behaviour. </font>[/QUOTE]Do we have a link to the exact ad. I think that a preacher should be able to go to the king and tell the king that he is the man who sinned vilely.

 

[church mouse guy]

BTW, thanks for the link, Gold D., listing the Fundamentalist churches in Canada. I think that we have more in Indiana.

 

[OCC]

What is all this bellyaching about? Putting Scripture in the newspaper IS hateful...to the world. And Jesus TOLD us as much. And Jesus said we will be persecuted. And Jesus told us not to whine about being persecuted. Seems to me that many American Christians want to be friends with the world. They don't want to be persecuted. That...or they want to force Christianity on everyone else.

Bunyon, why are you busting on my country? Doesn't yours have enough of its' own problems? Americans seem to like to say that to me.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by King James:
What is all this bellyaching about? Putting Scripture in the newspaper IS hateful...to the world.

I completely disagree with this. Scripture has no emotions, hate or love. It is human use and abuse of those scriptures that produce hate or love.

 

[OCC]

I don't think you get what I am saying. The world sees throwing Scripture at them as hateful. Disagree if you'd like but nine out of ten doctors would recommend you agree.

I will rephrase it: Putting Scripture in the newspaper is hateful...in the world's eyes. How is that?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by King James:
I don't think you get what I am saying. The world sees throwing Scripture at them as hateful. Disagree if you'd like but nine out of ten doctors would recommend you agree.

I will rephrase it: Putting Scripture in the newspaper is hateful...in the world's eyes. How is that?

I would disagree with that too. There are many folks who put scripture in newspapers and it isn't hateful. I myself have read scripture quoted in secular newspapers, especially from the religion columns or opinion pieces about religious groups. None of them were hateful.

 

[OCC]

I tried. *sigh*

The world considers it hateful when you preach the Word, write the Word, etc. It's a fact...I've tried to explain it...we can agree to disagree...

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by King James:
I tried. *sigh*

The world considers it hateful when you preach the Word, write the Word, etc. It's a fact...I've tried to explain it...we can agree to disagree...

4 situations

1) Hatefully using scripture and the world viewing it as hateful.

Should be illegal

2) Hatefully using scripture and the world not viewing it as hateful.

Hard to see this happening often but I hope Christians do not promote hate in this way. Difficult to make illegal.

3) Not hatefully using scripture and the world not viewing it as hateful.

This is what I think happens much of the time and should never be illegal.

4) Not hatefully using scripture and the world viewing it as hateful.

This misunderstanding can sometimes be resolved with clarification. But in the those cases it cannot, this what Jesus is referring to and yes, we should expect it. And yes, in those situations, injustice against Christians may occur. Christians who are truly not hateful and understanding of other perpsectives should ideally be able to convince a third-party like a judge of their innocence. If not, then yes injustice against Christianity has happened that Christ told us to expect.

Has injustice by a judge against a Christian happened in Canada because of recent legislation? Not that I am aware of.

 

[OCC]

Good post. I agree. No recent legislation that I am aware of either.

 

[Bunyon]

Ok, Gold Dragon, you forced my hand. I'll look up the other incidents. I was being lazy.

King James, I see Great Britin, Canada, Australia as brothers. It is commonly held that what happens in Europe comes here eventually. But specifically, the civil laws concerning "hate speech" are progenators of the criminal laws you now have there and we are devloping here. Do you think Barney frank just said hey lets do this. No, he sees the precedents set there and he decides to try it here. But anyone can see that how the civil laws have been handled their, can give us insights into how the criminal law will be handled here and there.

As a future lawyer, you understand the importance of precendent in law.

If the man would have done the exact same thing with adultery or smoking, he would not have been fined. But he spoke up about homosexuality and that is mostly what these laws are ultimately designed to do. Sqelch opposition to homosexuality. Since their is an alterior purpose to all of this, they aren't going to bother with simple religious pieces in the paper. They are trying to enforce a certain world veiw and morality, so only certain stratigic pieces will be attacked.

King James, while I agree with your view that persecution will come and we should embrace our role, even in that environment, we should not want it as you say. That is unhealthy. Even Jesus sweated blood and asked for that cup to be removed if possible. So we also wish for the cup to be avoided, but if it can't we will drink it.