Read the Greek scholars expressing the opposite view you posted.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
How are believers "Drawn" to Christ?
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
LOL, tone, timbre, or grammar? The Greek scholars disagree, thus you claims seem false. Your statement "all scholarship" proves your claims are obviously false.
" In addition not a single usage of tasso in Acts identifies God as being the agent performing the action. In fact of all the instances where tasso is seen throughout the entire N.T. only one explicitly identifies God as being the actor of tasso (e.g. Rom. 13:1), and even in that case the verse is completely unrelated to salvation and simply deals with God setting or establishing authorities in place."
In the Old Testament, God says he draws by "hesed" translated as lovingkindness or steadfast love. Our human response to seeing or becoming aware that God has demonstrated His love for us is to be attracted to God. Jeremiah 31:3. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in this Old Testament verse.
In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.
John 6:44
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Here come to Me refers contextually to coming to believe in Christ as Savior and Lord, see the next verse where "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."
John 12:32
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
Here "people" has been supplied as the group "all" (pas) refers to, but actually the idea is all those who become aware of Christ sacrificing His life for humanity will be attracted by His demonstration of love for them. Again our human response to the Father's revealed "Lamb of God" is the inward power that attracts us to Christ.
In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.
John 6:44
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Here come to Me refers contextually to coming to believe in Christ as Savior and Lord, see the next verse where "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."
John 12:32
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
Here "people" has been supplied as the group "all" (pas) refers to, but actually the idea is all those who become aware of Christ sacrificing His life for humanity will be attracted by His demonstration of love for them. Again our human response to the Father's revealed "Lamb of God" is the inward power that attracts us to Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly states believers are chosen. Lets stop and agree right there, God chooses believers, not those to be believers.
For what purpose does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? For salvation, thus this phrase teaches the purpose of His election.
How does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? By setting them apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
Why does God choose individuals for salvation? "through or on the basis of" faith in the truth! Thus a conditional election.
To what does the phrase "from the beginning" refer? These are people being chosen according to the New Covenant in His blood, thus from the beginning of the New Covenant, when the New Covenant was inaugurated on the day Christ died.
2 Thessalonians2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, siblings, beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
For what purpose does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? For salvation, thus this phrase teaches the purpose of His election.
How does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? By setting them apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
Why does God choose individuals for salvation? "through or on the basis of" faith in the truth! Thus a conditional election.
To what does the phrase "from the beginning" refer? These are people being chosen according to the New Covenant in His blood, thus from the beginning of the New Covenant, when the New Covenant was inaugurated on the day Christ died.
2 Thessalonians2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, siblings, beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
You did not cite "all scholarship" but you have the unmitigated gall, the unabashed temerity to ask me for one?
If a person is predisposed to reject the gospel because it differs from prior beliefs, can we attribute those views as being the result of passive actions upon the individuals in the past? Yes, of course. OTOH, if a person is open to God's established directions to eternal life, can we attribute those views as being the result of passive actions upon the individual? Yes, of course.
Thus as many as were disposed or open to the established directions to eternal life, believed.
This view actually reflects the context and grammar of Acts 13:48.
Thus as many as were disposed or open to the established directions to eternal life, believed.
This view actually reflects the context and grammar of Acts 13:48.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
You said all scholarship, it is incumbent on you to post the evidence as part of posting the unsubstantiated false claim.
Please, please provide the quote with the Author. I want to know who said this.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The OP has been thoroughly rebuked with sound Biblical Greek analysis from someone who actually understands Biblical Greek.
The OP has acknowledged on prior occasions to having no formal training in Biblical languages, and therefore will only respond with “LOL, “Obfuscation”, “taint so” and “nonsense” when presented with actual evidence of his errors in his understanding of biblical Greek from someone who knows the language.
The OP’s ignorance of Biblical Greek, coupled with an obsession with attempting to alter the established understanding of Biblical Greek to disprove Calvinism, leads the OP to repeated obvious errors in doctrine.
The OP shamelessly attacks any who disagrees with the misinterpreted passages with mocking, personal insults.
The only possible conclusion for any unbiased reader is this thread is another failure, in a long line of failures, to disprove Calvinism from some obsessed with the issue.
peace to you
And the stream of falsehoods continues. The opposition has not presented sound biblical Greek analysis, but only the false assertions of Calvinist partisans.
If a person is predisposed to reject the gospel because it differs from prior beliefs, can we attribute those views as being the result of passive actions upon the individuals in the past? Yes, of course. OTOH, if a person is open to God's established directions to eternal life, can we attribute those views as being the result of passive actions upon the individual? Yes, of course.
Thus as many as were disposed or open to the established directions to eternal life, believed.
This view actually reflects the context and grammar of Acts 13:48.
In the Old Testament, God says he draws by "hesed" translated as lovingkindness or steadfast love. Our human response to seeing or becoming aware that God has demonstrated His love for us is to be attracted to God. Jeremiah 31:3. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in this Old Testament verse.
In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.
John 6:44
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Here come to Me refers contextually to coming to believe in Christ as Savior and Lord, see the next verse where "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."
John 12:32
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
Here "people" has been supplied as the group "all" (pas) refers to, but actually the idea is all those who become aware of Christ sacrificing His life for humanity will be attracted by His demonstration of love for them. Again our human response to the Father's revealed "Lamb of God" is the inward power that attracts us to Christ.
In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.
John 6:44
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Here come to Me refers contextually to coming to believe in Christ as Savior and Lord, see the next verse where "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."
John 12:32
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
Here "people" has been supplied as the group "all" (pas) refers to, but actually the idea is all those who become aware of Christ sacrificing His life for humanity will be attracted by His demonstration of love for them. Again our human response to the Father's revealed "Lamb of God" is the inward power that attracts us to Christ.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Matthew 11:27
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Luke 10:22
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
John 11:51b-52
...he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Luke 10:22
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
John 11:51b-52
...he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Because the OP is a novice Biblical Greek student, at best, the OP doesn’t recognize sound Biblical Greek analysis when it is presented.
Biblical Greek is not “Calvinist” or “anti-Calvinist”. There are rules of grammar that scholars of all backgrounds have agreed upon when analyzing the text. When those scholars debate, they make their arguments within the established rules of grammar.
The OP has combined an obsessive hatred of “Calvinism” with a very real ignorance of the Biblical Greek language that produces shameful mockery of true scholarship, and a rewriting of all the rules of grammar that demonstrate the OP’s continuous errors in understanding the text.
Additionally, when the OP is confronted with his errors with sound, Biblical Greek analysis.,in a very respectful manner, the OP claims victimhood.
The OP has been thoroughly rebuked with sound analysis of the Biblical Greek. His errors are obvious to anyone without bias. FULLSTOP LOL
peace to you
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him.
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him.