How can a man “lose his soul”?

[loDebar]

According to Strong's Concordance psyche/psuche is translated "soul" 58 times and "life" 40 times in the King James Version (I didn't check other versions). It is the word that is translated "life" in verse 25. Pneuma is usually translated "spirit."

sometimes but look at thre Greek for each one.

We often include more than when using a singular word, like David saving souls from capture, is obviously the entire human

We do this with an egg, shell white and yolk . When we cook an egg, we usually do not include the shell, but sometimes do

use this verse as reference to Strongs

1Th 5:23¶
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[MartyF]

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

I read this in my Bible reading this morning. I’m not wanting to create an argument, just sharing thoughts this morning.

If my salvation is pre-determined, without anything to do with God’s foreknowledge of my choices, how is it that it can be said that a man can lose his own soul?

In my mind, this clearly implies man has a free will.

I'm not even a classical theist, but I would say that a Calvinist would point to 1 Samuel 19:9, 2 Samuel 24:1, and 2 Samuel 24:10.

The Calvinist would obviously point to the fact that both Saul and David had not only their actions, but also, the feelings and mental state controlled by God. But despite this, as 2 Samuel 24:10 says, they were still responsible for their actions.

But allow me to ask you this. Think of something you did in the past. Most people put on shoes every day, for example. Think about which shoe you put on first this morning. Let's say it was the left shoe. Think carefully about that past event. Now, instead of putting on the left shoe first, put on the right shoe first. Can you do it?

At this point you can laugh and say obviously no. You could have a photographic memory and know every event of your past, but you would be powerless to change even the simplest action you made. But did it feel like any of the actions you made were not of your own choosing? But you can't change the past everyone knows that. The past is exhaustively settled.

Now imagine you had the exact perfect photographic "memory" of your future, not only to your death, but past that to forever. You know every action you are going to make for all time. Should I envy or pity you? Why?

 

[1689Dave]

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

I read this in my Bible reading this morning. I’m not wanting to create an argument, just sharing thoughts this morning.

If my salvation is pre-determined, without anything to do with God’s foreknowledge of my choices, how is it that it can be said that a man can lose his own soul?

In my mind, this clearly implies man has a free will.

I always assumed it was Jesus separating the wheat from the chaff. Only true believers will forsake all and live the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Adonia]

In my mind, this clearly implies man has a free will.

And you would be correct.

 

[1689Dave]

Losing one's own soul? DOn't people who sell out for money do this all the time. How many have a self image they must step inside of in the public eye? Elvis had to be Elvis. May pros have to be the image they uphold. And consequently they lose their own souls in the process.

 

[MB]

"Loosing" is always the result of making wrong decisions. Either that or not making the right decisions.
MB

 

[37818]

. . person's eternal soul . . .

The only souls that are eternal are the souls not lost.

 

[rlvaughn]

sometimes but look at thre Greek for each one.

We often include more than when using a singular word, like David saving souls from capture, is obviously the entire human

We do this with an egg, shell white and yolk . When we cook an egg, we usually do not include the shell, but sometimes do

use this verse as reference to Strongs

1Th 5:23¶
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm not following you here. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 "spirit" is pneuma and "soul" is psuche (and "body" is soma).

 

[Rockson]

Corresponding passage from Luke:

24 For whosoever would save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25 For what is a man profited, if he gain the whole world, and lose or forfeit his own self? Lu 0

So you're seeking to assert that it's not actually talking about losing one's salvation by steering away from using "soul"?? I'm unclear as to your reason for putting down this verse and yes I did read InTheLight's post as well.

If so look then at what you'd be saying....it would therefore mean you could gain the whole world and ultimately everything would be fine. Scripture says though the love of the world is enmity with God. It would mean you really don't have to take up your cross and follow Jesus for remember that's in the verse right beside it. That would mean you could even be ashamed of Jesus and his words with no concerns of not having Jesus not willing to confess your name before the Father and the Holy angels at the judgment. Does this seem reasonable to you? See the whole passage of Luke 9 : 23,26 below and not just verses 24,25 that you quoted.

(23) And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (24) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. (25) For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? (26) For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. Luke 9: 23,26

 

[loDebar]

I'm not following you here. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 "spirit" is pneuma and "soul" is psuche (and "body" is soma).

no, pneuma is unseen force as in pneumatic drill
psyche is where we get psychology the study of the mind
soma is body,, we use this in types of cell or neurons

we understand spiritual stimuli with our pneuna or soul.
we understand mental problems, like math, with our psyche
Feel physical stimuli with our body

 

[rlvaughn]

I'm not following you here. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 "spirit" is pneuma and "soul" is psuche (and "body" is soma).

no...

You write "no" as if this is not true. Please look up the words yourself.

 

[loDebar]

You write "no" as if this is not true. Please look up the words yourself.

oh, I gave a reference that does not show my position.

In the New Testament spirit is also seen as that dimension of human personality whereby relationship with God is possible ( Mark 2:8 ; Acts 7:59 ;Rom 1:9 ; 8:16 ; 1 Cor 5:3-5 ). It is this human spiritual nature that enables continuing conversation with the divine Spirit ( Rom 8:9-17 ).

Occasionally pneuma will be treated in a parallel structure with psyche [yuchv]. The terms seem to be one and the same ( Luke 1:46-47 ) and seem to be interchangeable. On the other hand, there are passages that distinguish between the two. Paul speaks of Adam as a "living soul" but of Christ as a "life-giving spirit." The one is oriented to human life and the other to heavenly life.

Flesh and spirit are often juxtaposed. Both can be defiled ( 2 Cor 7:1 ) and both can be holy ( 1 Cor 7:34 ). The flesh (works) and the spirit (fruit) are unalterably opposed to each other ( Gal 5:16-26 ). Spirit is also contrasted with letter. While the letter kills, the Spirit gives life ( 2 Cor 3:6 ). Spirit is also contrasted with human wisdom ( 1 Cor 2:5 ). Weakness of flesh can prove stronger than the spirit's will to pray ( Mark 14:38 ).

Worship of God in the spirit is acceptable, contrasting with unacceptable worship in the flesh ( Php 3:3 ). "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth" ( John 4:24 ).

While God's Spirit is holy, reference is made to unclean, evil, and demonic spirits that are injurious to relationships with God and other humans.

There are a few passages that see the spirit as disembodied ( 2 Cor 5:1-5 ; Heb 12:23 ; 1 Peter 3:19 ). Paul speaks of being absent in body, but present in spirit ( Col 2:5 ), and James notes that the body without the spirit is dead ( James 2:26 ).

 

[loDebar]

Our distinguished friend RLVaughn has caused me to reconsider , check myself and elaborate

Maybe, the spirit is in he body as the soul is within the soul. We leave the body but the spirit and soul remain together or attached. so when one is refereed to it coukd include the other as well. Like an egg.

The rich man from the Lazarus story knew he was in torment.

otherwise the definition in Strong's are not the same as general origins of physche, psychology. and Strong's seems to include everything for pnuemna

psychology The scientific study of the human mind and its functions, especially those affecting behavior in a given context.
synonyms: study of the mind, science of the mind, science of the personality, study of the mental processes and does not include the soul

I think the slant to soul is from the name of a Greek goddess Psyche " goddess of soul"

 

[MB]

I'm not even a classical theist, but I would say that a Calvinist would point to 1 Samuel 19:9, 2 Samuel 24:1, and 2 Samuel 24:10.

The Calvinist would obviously point to the fact that both Saul and David had not only their actions, but also, the feelings and mental state controlled by God. But despite this, as 2 Samuel 24:10 says, they were still responsible for their actions.

But allow me to ask you this. Think of something you did in the past. Most people put on shoes every day, for example. Think about which shoe you put on first this morning. Let's say it was the left shoe. Think carefully about that past event. Now, instead of putting on the left shoe first, put on the right shoe first. Can you do it?

At this point you can laugh and say obviously no. You could have a photographic memory and know every event of your past, but you would be powerless to change even the simplest action you made. But did it feel like any of the actions you made were not of your own choosing? But you can't change the past everyone knows that. The past is exhaustively settled.

Now imagine you had the exact perfect photographic "memory" of your future, not only to your death, but past that to forever. You know every action you are going to make for all time. Should I envy or pity you? Why?

Where there is no control there cannot be responsibility. The person who has control is responsible. No matter what you believe we are held responsible for our own actions only. and not for what God controls.
MB.

 

[MartyF]

Where there is no control there cannot be responsibility. The person who has control is responsible. No matter what you believe we are held responsible for our own actions only. and not for what God controls.
MB.

So you and IoDebar deny God’s Omnipotence?! That would be refreshing.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

In my mind, this clearly implies man has a free will.

In my mind this implies insanity!

Why would a sane man, having freewill (which I reject) chose to lose his own soul, life, mind, etc.?

The KJV translates Strong's G5590 in the following manner: soul (58x), life (40x), mind (3x), heart (1x), heartily (with G1537) (1x), not translated (2x).

 

[Reformed]

In my mind this implies insanity!

Why would a sane man, having freewill (which I reject) chose to lose his own soul, life, mind, etc.?

The KJV translates Strong's G5590 in the following manner: soul (58x), life (40x), mind (3x), heart (1x), heartily (with G1537) (1x), not translated (2x).

Wesley, it depends on how we define free will. When a sinner places his faith in Christ, he certainly does so freely. This is a natural response to the effectual call. Having been freed from the bondage of sin, this individual wants nothing other than Christ. What the sinner does not have is an autonomous free will that can resist the effectual call of the Holy Spirit. In the Monergist Ordo Salutis repentance precedes faith and in the Synergist Ordo Salutis faith precedes regeneration. This is the crux of the disagreement.

 

[Jerome]

In the Monergist Ordo Salutis repentance precedes faith and in the Synergist Ordo Salutis faith precedes regeneration. This is the crux of the disagreement.

Dr. Timothy George (Reformed Baptist), Theology of the Reformers:

"being placed into Christ (insitio in Christo) occurs in regeneration that, Calvin was careful to point out, follows from faith as its result"

 

[Jerome]

In the Monergist Ordo Salutis repentance precedes faith and in the Synergist Ordo Salutis faith precedes regeneration. This is the crux of the disagreement.

"we must ascertain what is the method of our deliverance. For so long as we are governed by our sense and by our natural disposition, we are in bondage to sin; but when the Lord regenerates us by his Spirit, he likewise makes us free, so that, loosed from the snares of Satan, we willingly obey righteousness. But regeneration proceeds from faith, and hence it is evident that freedom proceeds from the Gospel." —John Calvin, Commentary on John 8:32

"Here, in the first place, the Apostle shows, that nothing is set before faith but mere grace; . . . .grace is not to be taken, as some imagine, for the gift of regeneration" —John Calvin, Commentary on Romans 4:16

So too in his Catechism of the Church of Geneva (Q126):

"For when by faith we receive Christ as he is offered to us, he not only promises us deliverance from death and reconciliation with God, but also the gift of the Holy Spirit, by which we are regenerated to newness of life; these things must necessarily be conjoined so as not to divide Christ from himself."

 

[Jerome]

Explained in the precious 'Belgic Confession':

"We believe that this true faith being wrought in man by the hearing of the Word of God, and the operation of the Holy Ghost, doth regenerate and make him a new man, causing him to live a new life, and freeing him from the bondage of sin."