How can we be truly saved?

[convicted1]

-It may be helpful to note that "faith" is not a "thing" that we must "have", in the sense that it is not a mystical power that we need to get enough of the right kind. Faith is useless unless it is "Faith IN something". Faith simply means trust. Do I trust Jesus's sacrifice to atone for my sins, or do I not trust him and rely on my own works to atone for my sins? Faith is trust, reliance...and the OBJECT of the faith is much more important than the strength of the faith.

ILLustration: 2 men crossing a frozen river: One is very frightened, and steps cautiously, even getting down on all fours to spread out his weight. He has a weak faith in the ice. He is then shocked to see another man galloping past him on a horse. The second man knows the ice is plenty thick to hold him. He has a strong faith. Both men make it safely across the river because The ice was strong, and they had enough faith to trust the ice, even if it was weak faith.

We are not saved by our great faith, but by faith in a great savior.

Great analogy and post Brother! :applause::thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:


BTW, you'd be better off to sway away from this thread. Nothing any of us will post will suffice him/her. I am now.

 

[12strings]

In spite of the wise, well-intentioned advise from Convicted1 that I should probably heed...

Where are you coming from by the above? How do you know what Jesus really wants from you today? How can you trust Jesus unless you know Jesus first by how He really does exist and live today in our time?

Are you saying Jesus lies and exists differently in our time than he did in biblical times? Has his message changed? I know what Jesus wants today because He said what he wanted and put it in a book for us to read.

Nice illustration since that man on the horse knew the ice was thick. Let me stop from here and try to dig a little deeper with your illustration to make the scenario much more clear and readable. How did the man on the horse know that the ice was really thick?

The man on the horse knew of the thick ice based on his prior experience with ice and frozen conditions. He had the background to know how to recognize when ice was thick enough to easily support him and his horse.

We know we can trust God because he has proven himself faithful. Faithful to send Christ, faithful to give us his word, faithful to give us his spirit.

 

[Yeshua1]

What about a direct answer from God, don't you have any? Do you acknowledge that the bible is not God? If so, don't you care to seek a Godlical answer this time? Just asking.

ALL that was posted to you WAS from the Bible!

God is not the Bible, but ALL that it states is God speaking to us!

His answer would be the same as I quoted to you, as that was Him speaking to us through the written word!

 

[savedbymercy]

Faith simply means trust

Yes, Faith trusts the gospel of one's Salvation that was announced to them. Eph 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The Trust comes following the revealed fact of being already saved ! That is why its called the gospel of your salvation, they are already possessors of it ! So they Trust and rely on that already True fact !

 

[DHK]

And how do you know all of that if you can't testify of it. You say man has to be chosen from the beginning. Sure, that is what the Bible says. Are you sure you are chosen from the beginning? If so, how?

I note that SBG was unable to answer this post made some time ago.

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes, Faith trusts the gospel of one's Salvation that was announced to them. Eph 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The Trust comes following the revealed fact of being already saved ! That is why its called the gospel of your salvation, they are already possessors of it ! So they Trust and rely on that already True fact !

Take a look at the Greek text and see if you can find any word in the Greek text corresponding to "after" in the English Text. It is not there!

The whole phrase "after...heard" translates one Greek Aorist participle and simply conveys they first had to hear the gospel before they could believe in the gospel - common sense as you cannot believe what you have never heard

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Take a look at the Greek

The greek does nothing but affirm the Truth in the english bible. The Gospel of Ones salvation comes to one who is saved !

 

[12strings]

Yes, Faith trusts the gospel of one's Salvation that was announced to them. Eph 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The Trust comes following the revealed fact of being already saved ! That is why its called the gospel of your salvation, they are already possessors of it ! So they Trust and rely on that already True fact !

Literal greek rendering:

IN WHOM ALSO YOU, HAVING HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF THE SALVATION OF YOU, IN WHOM ALSO, HAVING BELIEVED, YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE SPIRIT OF PROMISE, THE HOLY.

Notes:
1. The word "after" is not there...The KJV translated "akousantes" into "after that ye heard." "Akousantes" actually means simply "having heard". KJV also translates "having believed" to be "after that ye believed".

2. Not only that, but if you look closely at the first phrase, the word "trusted" is not even there. THE KJV translators put "trusted" in parenthases to designate that it was not part of the original greek, but rather added for clarity in english. Greek simply says "in whom you also, having heard..."

 

[longhino]

ALL that was posted to you WAS from the Bible!

God is not the Bible, but ALL that it states is God speaking to us!

His answer would be the same as I quoted to you, as that was Him speaking to us through the written word!

Since God is not the bible and that God is real and alive, how do you say ALL that the bible states is God speaking to us, did God, in the reality of His own way of existence, confirm that to you? Is God interaction with us today only through the bible?

 

[longhino]

Are you saying Jesus lies and exists differently in our time than he did in biblical times? Has his message changed? I know what Jesus wants today because He said what he wanted and put it in a book for us to read.

I do not say Jesus lies and exists differently in our time than He did in biblical times, why would I when I was not a witness with the Lord's dealing during those times, were you? Do you believe Jesus is the Lord God? If you do, why put him in a box by saying "I know what Jesus wants today because He said what he wanted and put it in a book for us to read," knowing pretty well you were not yet in existence during those times?

The man on the horse knew of the thick ice based on his prior experience with ice and frozen conditions. He had the background to know how to recognize when ice was thick enough to easily support him and his horse.

We know we can trust God because he has proven himself faithful. Faithful to send Christ, faithful to give us his word, faithful to give us his spirit.

The illustration is the same as what Jesus wants us today to trust and believe Him. Experience, not only reading and understanding what is being read, is a must for us to have faith in God. We must experience God Jesus in order for us to believe in Him based on His personal teachings and revelations to us through personal experience with HIm in the reality of His own way of existence. We cannot have the right faith in the Lord unless we come first to Him and experience Him (Lord) personally when He responds to us.

 

[savedbymercy]

Literal greek rendering:

IN WHOM ALSO YOU, HAVING HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF THE SALVATION OF YOU, IN WHOM ALSO, HAVING BELIEVED, YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE SPIRIT OF PROMISE, THE HOLY.

Notes:
1. The word "after" is not there...The KJV translated "akousantes" into "after that ye heard." "Akousantes" actually means simply "having heard". KJV also translates "having believed" to be "after that ye believed".

2. Not only that, but if you look closely at the first phrase, the word "trusted" is not even there. THE KJV translators put "trusted" in parenthases to designate that it was not part of the original greek, but rather added for clarity in english. Greek simply says "in whom you also, having heard..."

Yes, Faith trusts the gospel of one's Salvation that was announced to them. Eph 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The Trust comes following the revealed fact of being already saved ! That is why its called the gospel of your salvation, they are already possessors of it ! So they Trust and rely on that already True fact !

 

[12strings]

Do you believe Jesus is the Lord God? If you do, why put him in a box by saying "I know what Jesus wants today because He said what he wanted and put it in a book for us to read," knowing pretty well you were not yet in existence during those times?

So to clarify, you are saying that it is putting God in a box to actually believe what he said, even if it was 2,000 years ago? You are saying that in order to not put Jesus in a box, we must only believe the things we hear him say now, and reject the things he said a long time ago?

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



The greek does nothing but affirm the Truth in the english bible. The Gospel of Ones salvation comes to one who is saved !

are yiou saying that the KJV, or any other English version, takes priority over the greek/hebrew texts then, for the purposes of interpretating the Bible?

As MOST of what you teach is refuted in/by the Greek NT text!

 

[savedbymercy]

are yiou saying that the KJV, or any other English version, takes priority over the greek/hebrew texts then, for the purposes of interpretating the Bible?

As MOST of what you teach is refuted in/by the Greek NT text!

You teach work salvation !

 

[Yeshua1]

You teach work salvation !

I teach the real Gospel!

How about you?

 

[longhino]

So to clarify, you are saying that it is putting God in a box to actually believe what he said, even if it was 2,000 years ago?

If you will just confine yourself to those and make a general statement that Jesus have spoken and will not speak to anyone today, yes, you are putting Him in a box and limiting Him, too.

You are saying that in order to not put Jesus in a box, we must only believe the things we hear him say now, and reject the things he said a long time ago?

If you will hear Jesus today, why don't you ask Him which ones are to be rejected, why make your statement conditional in accordance with your own understanding?

 

[12strings]

If you will just confine yourself to those and make a general statement that Jesus have spoken and will not speak to anyone today, yes, you are putting Him in a box and limiting Him, too.


If you will hear Jesus today, why don't you ask Him which ones are to be rejected, why make your statement conditional in accordance with your own understanding?

You didn't answer my question. Do you think we should believe ALL of Jesus' words, or just some of them, the ones we hear more recently?

 

[longhino]

You didn't answer my question. Do you think we should believe ALL of Jesus' words, or just some of them, the ones we hear more recently?

You may not really understand what I am talking about. Actually, we can ignore all that is written in the bible except for one - that there is really God to whom we can come and call on to at anytime and put all our trust in Him. If we do that (coming to God in the reality of His existence), God can respond to us and starts to teach us hence no need to study those written words in the scriptures since the Lord Jesus Christ is "The Living Word of God." Faith in God is faith in whatever God will tell us and not faith in God through what we read and understand in the bible.

 

[DHK]

You teach work salvation !

And what do you teach?
You haven't told us yet.
How were you saved? Or are you?

 

[longhino]

How were you saved? Or are you?

Are you? If so, how did you know?