How can we be truly saved?

[billwald]

>So a pharisee is one who capitalizes pronouns for God? Oh really? I know MANY who have done so and I continue to do it - honoring God's name. Even a pronoun referring to Him should be capitalized, IMO.

It is going beyond the requirements of the law (in this case standard English grammar) to demonstrate one's sanctity to others. The Pharisees called it "putting a fence around the Law." If the Law demands 30 stripes max" we say "29 stripes max." If grammar requires that proper nouns be capitalized then we capitalize proper pronouns.

 

[longhino]

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Eph. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

These are all bible verses and these things cannot save you.

 

[longhino]

To answer the OP, all one needs to do to be saved is trust Jesus Christ to save him. To trust means to cast yourself upon Jesus and depend upon him only to save you. I have given the analogy of a person being in a tall building that is on fire. You are trapped in the window. Down below, firemen with a net call out to you to jump, and they promise they will catch you. You have two options here, you can try to climb down and save yourself, or you can simply jump and trust the firemen alone to save you. This is how we are saved, we spiritually "jump" and trust our salvation completely to Jesus. We put our life in Jesus's hands and leave it there. We do not need to help Jesus, we do not need to attempt to climb down from that high window, we simply cast ourselves out and depend on Jesus alone to catch us.

Simply call out to Jesus in your heart and cast yourself upon him, and you will be saved today.

What you're saying is just 50 % of the truth, what comes next after we come and call out to Jesus and put all our trust and dependence on Him? Salvation is not one way ticket to heaven, it is always on a two-way ticket to Paradise. What you have said is just on the part of the believers, the part on the Lord is the one lacking.

 

[12strings]

Longhino,

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on my post #10...have I missed anything important?

-Andy

 

[12strings]

SINCE YOU ASKED <G>


>So are you saying you reject Christianity?

NO! I don't think orthodox Christianity was what Jesus had in mind.

>Or that you remain agnostic about whether we can actually know truth?

We can't be sure we know the truth as long as we "see through a glass, darkly." And could we understand it if we could see it clearly? I don't know. My pastor says God talks to us in baby talk because that is all we can understand.


>>The wording of the thread title and posts illustrates the ambiguity in the Bible and the gnostic characteristic of Christianity e.g. several conflicting words to define one spiritual state and arguments over what the words mean.


>Can you please further explain in clear words and specifics, if possible, what you are stressing in your said post,

"Believe in," "invite Jesus," "Be born again," regeneration," "sanctification," "being save," "following Jesus," "repenting," "being elect" are all different ways of describing the same end result.

One characteristic of gnosticism is having levels of understanding like the Masonic "degrees." Most of you are to polite, to civilized, to plainly say that anyone who disagrees with you is going to hell, but clear most believe that anyone who disagrees has a lower level of understanding thus is less sanctified, less holy.

You all quote scripture and use theological words as if everything is clear and understood by every other person. The big technical words are not a problem. Anyone can grab a dictionary or use wiki. When someone asks, "Do you mean A or B?" that is a an honest question. When someone asks a question that would be easier to look up they are trying to start some kind of trouble.

Evangelical Protestants use some popular verses as a gnostic password. The meaning is assumed, never discussed, and I don't know what it "really" means. The problem is the small words. For example, "Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world." It should be obvious that this sentence has two meanings for "in."

I like listening to Catholic Radio (except for the "Hail Marys") because they have very qualified personnel who speak in clear standard English, not "insider" jargon.

A friend (85 years old) gave me a book written by his old friend whom he says is the most intelligent person he has known. I turned a few pages and it was obvious the author was a pharisee. First hint, all the pronouns for Jesus or God are capitalized. That is NOT standard English or standard theological practice. Not even the KJV does that! Second, it is clear he thinks the moral problems in the US would be solved by indoctrinating the young people with the Ten Commandments. Many Christians are pharisees without realizing it.

You use phrases like "you all" to seemingly separate yourself from us normal BB posters. Do you feel that you have the special gnostic knowledge that allows you to see our pharisaism? Are you not claiming to see things more clearly than the rest of us...namely you see that we cannot really see things clearly?

Also, 1 John was written so that we might "know" that we have eternal life. clearly there are things that God wants us to know, and he has given his word so that we may know them. There also things in his word that are not so clear, and on those we must hold our opinions humbly.

Also, is it not imitating a pharisee to demean a fellow believer for using a capitol letter when you believe he should use a lower-case? Does it really matter either way? From what I have read, either practice is correct and acceptable, but one should be consistent within their writing.

I realize many christians, Probalby me included, forcefully defend positions that are not quite so clear in scripture as we believe them to be...but taking the opposite extreme of not really stating any beliefs is not, I believe, the way to go.

 

[convicted1]

These are all bible verses and these things cannot save you.

What are you driving at? I have seen MANY sufficient answers, and yet you want more. We are saved by grace through faith. W/O faith, we can not be saved. W/O grace, we can not be saved. Faith, in and of itself, saves no one. Grace saves, but one must have faith in the One who gives us His Grace.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[savedbymercy]

For man to be saved in time, we first must be saved before the world began by the Eternal Purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The Elect form the standpoint of God's Eternal Purpose are born already saved from their sins. They are saved by Grace given them in Christ before the world began !

 

[savedbymercy]

What are you driving at? I have seen MANY sufficient answers, and yet you want more. We are saved by grace through faith. W/O faith, we can not be saved. W/O grace, we can not be saved. Faith, in and of itself, saves no one. Grace saves, but one must have faith in the One who gives us His Grace.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

One is not saved because they please God by Faith. That is works Salvation ! You believe that getting saved is a reward, a wage.

The word rewarder in Heb 11:6 is the greek word misthapodotēs and means:

one who pays wages, a rewarder

Salvation is not a wage God pays a persn for work or faith !

 

[Winman]

We are saved by God's grace, but we only have access to this grace by faith.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

It is like this, suppose I promised to send you $100 if you simply sent me your name and address (I am not making this promise!). You did not earn the $100, I did. I am not offering this money to you because of any merit on your part, just because I am a nice guy.

Now, if you don't believe me, you of course are not going to give me your name and address. But if you have even the slightest faith that I am telling the truth, you are going to send me your information. Now, writing me is a work, but the faith that compelled you to write is not a work. Do you understand that?

And you could not have had this confidence unless I first made the offer. So my offer enables you to have faith or not, but the faith is your own.

If you believe me and give me your information, then you receive the free gift.

It is the same with God's grace. It is there and has appeared to all men (Titus 2:11), but only those who believe God's promise and apply for it receive it. If you do not believe you will not apply for it, if you do believe you will.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

You have to ask to receive. But you will only ask if you believe God is telling you the truth. This is faith.

Once again, I am not offering anyone here money, this was just an analogy. :tongue3:

 

[billwald]

>You use phrases like "you all" to seemingly separate yourself from us normal BB posters

As a second class BB member to all genuine Baptist full priveledged BB members.



>Also, 1 John was written so that we might "know" that we have eternal life.

One of my favorite books. If we continue doing/trying to do good works we can know that we have eternal life.

>Also, is it not imitating a pharisee to demean a fellow believer for using a capitol letter when you believe he should use a lower-case? Does it really matter either way? From what I have read, either practice is correct and acceptable, but one should be consistent within their writing.

If you do it because you think it is more spiritual . . . isn't that what Jesus criticized the pharisees for doing? Jesus taught one should your "spiritualizing" in secret. So if one wants to be more spiritual than the writers of the KJV . . . It simply annoyed me in a book that was written to "save" the USA.

 

[savedbymercy]

All those saved by God's Purpose before the world began, are then saved experimentally by New Birth or Regeneration Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,HOW? by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

All those Christ died for, He rose again for, and they are saved by His Life, they by His Resurrection are begotten again 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This begotten us again is Regeneration or New Birth, that saves the Elect Titus 3:5 !

 

[longhino]

What are you driving at? I have seen MANY sufficient answers, and yet you want more. We are saved by grace through faith. W/O faith, we can not be saved. W/O grace, we can not be saved. Faith, in and of itself, saves no one. Grace saves, but one must have faith in the One who gives us His Grace.

Can we be saved by reading and posting those verses, what comes next after reading? How can we have that faith in God if we will just keep on reading and understanding the bible? What shall we do in our actual life? How are we going to traslate those verses in the reality of our lives?

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So, how can we have the right faith to please God? How can we please God this time after we have read the bible?

 

[longhino]

What must I do to be saved? believe on the Lord jesus and you shall be saved!

here is the biblcal answer!

hear the Gospel, receive/believe in jesus, and receive forgiveness/new nature, and are saved!

(Know that the Lord enables one to do such, being a calvinist, but talking about what we know happens!)

What about a direct answer from God, don't you have any? Do you acknowledge that the bible is not God? If so, don't you care to seek a Godlical answer this time? Just asking.

 

[longhino]

Longhino,

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on my post #10...have I missed anything important?

-Andy

The esstial one on how to be really saved, that is the one that you miss. Your post is a clear expression of your thoughts with respect to those bible verses you paste in it.

 

[12strings]

The esstial one on how to be really saved, that is the one that you miss. Your post is a clear expression of your thoughts with respect to those bible verses you paste in it.

So what exactly have I missed? I'm still not clear on that.

 

[longhino]

So what exactly have I missed? I'm still not clear on that.

You miss coming to Jesus in the reality of His own way of existence and asking Jesus the true way and waiting for Him (Jesus) to respond to you, all you have done so far in that post is bible reading and interpretation.

 

[savedbymercy]

Then finally, all whom are saved by the Purpose of God, and then by the Spirit of God, as fruit of Christ's Redeeming Death, then they shall be saved at the return of Christ from this body of Death Rom 7:25

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The word deliver there is another way of saying save !

Jesus second coming is foretold as a Deliverance for the Holy people Dan 12:1-3

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

 

[12strings]

Can we be saved by reading and posting those verses, what comes next after reading? How can we have that faith in God if we will just keep on reading and understanding the bible? What shall we do in our actual life? How are we going to traslate those verses in the reality of our lives?

-If you are seeking for something to that you must DO to earn God's acceptance or forgiveness, you will be sorely disappointed and frustrated, for it is by grace that we are saved through faith, it is not of yourself, it is a gift of God, so that no one may boast.

-Read Romans 10:1-4: It is precisely BECAUSE Paul's fellow Jews were seeking to establish their own righteousness that Paul prayed for thier salvation. They were not willing to accept the righteousness of God in Christ, but rather worked hard at following the law in order to earn favor with God...because of this, Paul said he needed to pray for their salvation. God gave the OT law. It was good! But it was not sufficient to bring a lost sinner back into a right relationship with God.

So, how can we have the right faith to please God? How can we please God this time after we have read the bible?

-It may be helpful to note that "faith" is not a "thing" that we must "have", in the sense that it is not a mystical power that we need to get enough of the right kind. Faith is useless unless it is "Faith IN something". Faith simply means trust. Do I trust Jesus's sacrifice to atone for my sins, or do I not trust him and rely on my own works to atone for my sins? Faith is trust, reliance...and the OBJECT of the faith is much more important than the strength of the faith.

ILLustration: 2 men crossing a frozen river: One is very frightened, and steps cautiously, even getting down on all fours to spread out his weight. He has a weak faith in the ice. He is then shocked to see another man galloping past him on a horse. The second man knows the ice is plenty thick to hold him. He has a strong faith. Both men make it safely across the river because The ice was strong, and they had enough faith to trust the ice, even if it was weak faith.

We are not saved by our great faith, but by faith in a great savior.

 

[12strings]

You miss coming to Jesus in the reality of His own way of existence and asking Jesus the true way and waiting for Him (Jesus) to respond to you, all you have done so far in that post is bible reading and interpretation.

So how do we come to Jesus?

...and what does "coming to Jesus in the reality of his own way of existence" even mean? It that in the Bible somewhere?

 

[longhino]

-It may be helpful to note that "faith" is not a "thing" that we must "have", in the sense that it is not a mystical power that we need to get enough of the right kind. Faith is useless unless it is "Faith IN something". Faith simply means trust. Do I trust Jesus's sacrifice to atone for my sins, or do I not trust him and rely on my own works to atone for my sins? Faith is trust, reliance...and the OBJECT of the faith is much more important than the strength of the faith.

Where are you coming from by the above? How do you know what Jesus really wants from you today? How can you trust Jesus unless you know Jesus first by how He really does exist and live today in our time?

-ILLustration: 2 men crossing a frozen river: One is very frightened, and steps cautiously, even getting down on all fours to spread out his weight. He has a weak faith in the ice. He is then shocked to see another man galloping past him on a horse. The second man knows the ice is plenty thick to hold him. He has a strong faith. Both men make it safely across the river because The ice was strong, and they had enough faith to trust the ice, even if it was weak faith.

We are not saved by our great faith, but by faith in a great savior.

Nice illustration since that man on the horse knew the ice was thick. Let me stop from here and try to dig a little deeper with your illustration to make the scenario much more clear and readable. How did the man on the horse know that the ice was really thick?