How Did John Piper Become A Calvinist?

[JD731]

It is equally important to remember that if Paul wrote vast quantities of scripture of negligible value to non-Jews and sent it to Gentile Churches then he was not really the Apostle to the Gentiles and most of the Bible is worthless and irrelevant to most Christians ... we might as well join a New Age church and just get in touch with our Earth Mother.

On the other hand, if Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles and what he wrote was intended for us and the Gospels were written to take the Good News to all nations, then all of scripture is for us and the Jew/Gentile dichotomy is a red herring meant to confuse and mislead.

All who believe are the Israel of God.

Thank you atpollard for your contribution but I have to tell you that the scripture were written in a historical context that involved the Jews rejecting their promised Messiah and the immediate response of God that has not changed since those days. They will not change until God changes them when the fullness of the gentiles be come in. We are very close to that now. He said in Rom 11 that this will be a pivot point and that he will then come out of Zion and save his people Israel. If he is coming out of Zion, that has to mean he has come to Zion. Zion is Jerusalem. Read Ze 14 now.

Everything you teach about God is an error. It is because you have been trained to not believe the words of the Bible. Trust me, you are not a new Israel. If Israel needs to be saved in Rom 11:26 after the fullness of the gentiles be come in then this has to mean you are not Israel or God did not do a good job of saving you or electing you. Sometimes it is good to reflect on just how much sense you are not making.

 

[atpollard]

Thank you atpollard for your contribution but I have to tell you that the scripture were written in a historical context that involved the Jews rejecting their promised Messiah and the immediate response of God that has not changed since those days. They will not change until God changes them when the fullness of the gentiles be come in. We are very close to that now. He said in Rom 11 that this will be a pivot point and that he will then come out of Zion and save his people Israel. If he is coming out of Zion, that has to mean he has come to Zion. Zion is Jerusalem. Read Ze 14 now.

Everything you teach about God is an error. It is because you have been trained to not believe the words of the Bible. Trust me, you are not a new Israel. If Israel needs to be saved in Rom 11:26 after the fullness of the gentiles be come in then this has to mean you are not Israel or God did not do a good job of saving you or electing you. Sometimes it is good to reflect on just how much sense you are not making.

Got it ... read your NT Pamphlet and save the Bible for Jews.

So why don't you post the chapters and verses that are meant for Non-Jews since there can't be many (no OT, no Gospels, no Acts, no Romans, no Corinthians, no Ephesians, obviously no Hebrews) ... what else can we eliminate?

 

[JD731]

Got it ... read your NT Pamphlet and save the Bible for Jews.

So why don't you post the chapters and verses that are meant for Non-Jews since there can't be many (no OT, no Gospels, no Acts, no Romans, no Corinthians, no Ephesians, obviously no Hebrews) ... what else can we eliminate?

Why should I have to post them when God already has explained himself and just needs for us to believe him? The whole problem, it seems to me, is that certain people are not believing the words they read. Case in point you read the word “Israel” and thought that was you. I think God knew you were going to do that and so he decided to call his people by his given name, Jacob. How could a bunch of gentiles think they were Jacob?

Now for your request that I tell you what is written to gentiles. Paul says in both Romans 11 and in Ephesians 3 that he was the special chosen of God apostle to the gentiles. He said he was born out of due time for this special calling. Do you think maybe that due time had come and gone and God really was doing something special with the gentiles to fill up his purpose that was left by the unbelief of the Jews through whom he had intended to accomplish his purpose? I do!

If Paul really is an apostle (sent one) to the gentiles like he said, then I would expect the letters he wrote were to gentiles. That seems reasonable to me. However he did say something very instructional in Romans 15.

Romans 15:15-21
15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Romans 15:25-27
25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

You may take this testimonial literally. The 13 letters that we call the Pauline epistles are addressed to you.

 

[AustinC]

Why should I have to post them when God already has explained himself and just needs for us to believe him? The whole problem, it seems to me, is that certain people are not believing the words they read. Case in point you read the word “Israel” and thought that was you. I think God knew you were going to do that and so he decided to call his people by his given name, Jacob. How could a bunch of gentiles think they were Jacob?

Now for your request that I tell you what is written to gentiles. Paul says in both Romans 11 and in Ephesians 3 that he was the special chosen of God apostle to the gentiles. He said he was born out of due time for this special calling. Do you think maybe that due time had come and gone and God really was doing something special with the gentiles to fill up his purpose that was left by the unbelief of the Jews through whom he had intended to accomplish his purpose? I do!

If Paul really is an apostle (sent one) to the gentiles like he said, then I would expect the letters he wrote were to gentiles. That seems reasonable to me. However he did say something very instructional in Romans 15.

Romans 15:15-21
15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Romans 15:25-27
25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

You may take this testimonial literally. The 13 letters that we call the Pauline epistles are addressed to you.

So gentiles should only read or accept 13 books for their Bible?

 

[atpollard]

You may take this testimonial literally. The 13 letters that we call the Pauline epistles are addressed to you.

Then why are YOU always claiming that this or that part of Romans and Ephesians was not written to Gentiles, it only applies to Jews?

You are like a double minded man, always blown around by the wind. I reject your premise that there is one message for Jews and a different message for Gentiles. That is just hogwash.

 

[Salty]

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