How Did OT Saints Get to Heaven?

[Van]

We know from Luke 16:19-31 that before Christ had died, believers who had obtained approval through faith were taken at physical death to a place called "Abraham's bosom."

We know this temporary holding cell (sort of a prison) was not located in Heaven because of John 3:13.

And we know from Hebrews 12:23 and Hebrews 11:40 that at some point the OT Saints, whose approval by faith had not yet resulted in being made perfect, were made perfect and entered heaven.

Finally we know that Jesus had to suffer and die upon the cross to become the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. 1 John 2:2.

One mistaken view (IMO) is that the Old Testament Saints were "saved" prospectively, God "looked forward" to the crucifixion and declared the OT saints to have the righteousness of God. But the fly in the buttermilk is Hebrews 11:40 where they had to "wait" to be made perfect, and all those in Heaven had been "made perfect."

So how did the saints who were taken to "Abraham's Bosom" become "perfect" and enter heaven?

1) First we know that Jesus preached or proclaimed the gospel to "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19) and that the gospel was preached to some people who had already physically died (1 Peter 4:6). If these were the OT Saints in Abraham's Bosom, what was the result?

2) We can also conjecture that this "proclaiming and preaching" occurred during the time between Christ's death and His bodily resurrection when He was "in the Spirit." (Jesus was also "in the Spirit" when He presented the gospel to those in prison.) See 1 Peter 3:19

3) We know that Jesus was sent to "proclaim" release to "captives." Luke 4:18​

One of the several theories concerning just who were the captives led away were the OT Saints in Abraham's bosom who apparently all accepted and embraced the gospel. Thus by the blood of the Lamb the OT Saints were made perfect, fully reconciled to God such that they could enter heaven.

 

[kyredneck]

How Did OT Saints Get to Heaven?

OT saints got to heaven the same way as NT saints, they were born from above, children of promise.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4

 

[JonC]

Well....they don't "get to Heaven" (Heaven will be on Earth)

IMHO-

They were forgiven as we are - repentance and faith in Christ (or the Promise). They "escape the wrath to come" the same way.

But this was not realized until Christ came.

 

[kyredneck]

I'll rephrase:

OT saints became saints the same way as NT saints, they were born from above, children of promise.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4

 

[Van]

OT saints got to heaven the same way as NT saints, they were born from above, children of promise.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4

Yet another none germane passage, missing entirely the issue of just when were the OT Saints spiritually born anew!!

 

[Van]

I'll rephrase:

OT saints became saints the same way as NT saints, they were born from above, children of promise.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4

LOL, when those who obtained approval by faith, physically died, and were then "set apart" (sanctified) in Abraham's bosom, they became "saints."

 

[kyredneck]

LOL, when those who obtained approval by faith, physically died, and were then "set apart" (sanctified) in Abraham's bosom, they became "saints."

Are you Catholic, or is this more Vanology nuttiness? His born from above children of promise were/are designated SAINTS while alive here on earth, not after they die, OT & NT scripture.

 

[Van]

Are you Catholic, or is this more Vanology nuttiness? His born from above children of promise were/are designated SAINTS while alive here on earth, not after they die, OT & NT scripture.

Yet another unsupported and obviously false claim.

None of the OT Saints were born anew when they obtained approval through faith. Not one!!!!! Why? Because they initially obtained approval under the Old Covenant, not the New Covenant.

And note the effort to claim God's corporately chosen people, his "holy ones" are equated by this poster's unstudied view, as being "saints" in the same sense as those who are "in Christ." I kid you not!!

 

[Van]

Job 15:15 - 16 (NET)
If God places no trust in his holy ones, if even the heavens are not pure in his eyes,
how much less man, who is abominable and corrupt, who drinks in evil like water!

These "saints" (corporately chosen ones) have not been made perfect by the blood of the Lamb. Thus if they did obtain approval to be set apart in Abraham's bosom, they still were not "saints" in the sense of being indwelt with the Spirit of Christ.

For contrast, see:

Phllippians 4:21 (NASB)
Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me greet you.​

Here we have those who have been transferred spiritually into the body of Christ, thus in or within Christ, designated as new covenant "saints," born from above and sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit.

 

[kyredneck]

None of the OT Saints were born anew when they obtained approval through faith. Not one!!!!! Why? Because they initially obtained approval under the Old Covenant, not the New Covenant.

So says Vanology, not the scriptures. This is where the error of translating 'above' as 'again' or 'anew' becomes apparent. It gives wiggle room to humanists like you to claim credit in something (the heavenly birth) that is totally 100% of God. Monergism.

 

[Van]

So says Vanology, not the scriptures. This is where the error of translating 'above' as 'again' or 'anew' becomes apparent. It gives wiggle room to humanists like you to claim credit in something (the heavenly birth) that is totally 100% of God. Monergism.

Yet another nonsense post, changing the subject and dipping into unstudied misrepresentation of objective truth.

None of the OT Saints were born anew when they obtained approval through faith. Not one!!!!! Why? Because they initially obtained approval under the Old Covenant, not the New Covenant.

And note the effort to claim God's corporately chosen people, his "holy ones" are equated by this poster's unstudied view, as being "saints" in the same sense as those who are "in Christ." I kid you not!! See post #9

 

[kyredneck]

None of the OT Saints were born anew

Right. They (Jew & Gentile) were born from Zion above, city of God. Psalms 87, Isaiah 54:1, Galatians 4:26-27, Revelation 12:17.

 

[kyredneck]

Glorious things of thee are spoken

1 Glorious things of thee are spoken,
Holy city of our God;
He whose word cannot be broken
Formed thee for His own abode;
On the Rock of Ages founded,
What can shake thy sure repose?
With salvation’s walls surrounded,
Thou may’st smile at all thy foes.

2 See the streams of living waters,
Springing from eternal love,
Well supply thy blessed members,
And all fear of want remove;
Who can faint, when such a river
Ever flows their thirst t’ assuage?
Grace which, like the Lord, the giver,
Never fails from age to age.

3 Blest constituents of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer’s blood;
Jesus, whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
’Tis His love His people raises
Over self to reign as kings:
And as priests, His worthy praises,
Each his thankful offering brings.

4 Savior, if of Zion’s city
I, through grace, a member am,
Let the world deride or pity—
I will glory in Thy name.
Fading is the worldling’s pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show;
Solid joys and lasting treasure
None but Zion’s members know.

Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken (youtube.com)

 

[Van]

Right. They (Jew & Gentile) were born from Zion above, city of God. Psalms 87, Isaiah 54:1, Galatians 4:26-27, Revelation 12:17.

On and on, none of the Old Testament saints were initially born from above, with the meaning of being made alive together with Christ,

Psalm 87 says those that know the Lord were born metaphorically in "a place of sacturay" which refers of course to the shelter of Christ.

Isaiah 54 refers to birth as the result of Yahweh, and the Redeemer, which of course refers to Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:26-27 refers to the same truth found in Isaiah 54.

Finally Revelation 12 refers to those who are indwelt, thus holding the testimony of Jesus.

In summary, after study the references all point to fulfilling the promise of the New Covenant. Those inhabitants of Zion had been washed with the Redeemer's blood.

 

[kyredneck]

In summary, after study the references all point to fulfilling the promise of the New Covenant.

In summary, Vanology reeks with the flesh. There's no lack of celebrating the Celestial Zion throughout Christian history.

Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken (youtube.com)

 

[Van]

In summary, Vanology reeks with the flesh. There's no lack of celebrating the Celestial Zion throughout Christian history.

Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken (youtube.com)

More name calling, more false claims.

Every inhabitant of Zion has been washed with the Redeemer's blood. Hebrews 12:23

Zion = Shelter of Christ = Kingdom of God

Anyone claiming individuals enter heaven without being washed with the blood of the Lamb should be disavowed boldly, plainly and clearly.

 

[kyredneck]

1 Praise ye Jehovah. Sing unto Jehovah a new song, And his praise in the assembly of the saints.
2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: Let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3 Let them praise his name in the dance: Let them sing praises unto him with timbrel and harp.
4 For Jehovah taketh pleasure in his people: He will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints exult in glory: Let them sing for joy upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, And a two-edged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the nations, And punishments upon the peoples;
8 To bind their kings with chains, And their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: This honor have all his saints. Praise ye Jehovah. Ps 149

 

[kyredneck]

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Gal 4

7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3

1 A Psalm of the sons of Korah; a Song. His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 Jehovah loveth the gates of Zion More than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah
4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Selah
7 They that sing as well as they that dance shall say, All my fountains are in thee. Ps 87

1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith Jehovah. Isa 54

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Gal 4

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

 

[kyredneck]

OT saints became saints the same way as NT saints, they were born from above, children of promise.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4

 

[Van]

"]We know from Luke 16:19-31 that before Christ had died, believers who had obtained approval through faith were taken at physical death to a place called "Abraham's bosom."

We know this temporary holding cell (sort of a prison) was not located in Heaven because of John 3:13.

And we know from Hebrews 12:23 and Hebrews 11:40 that at some point the OT Saints, whose approval by faith had not yet resulted in being made perfect, were made perfect and entered heaven.

Finally we know that Jesus had to suffer and die upon the cross to become the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. 1 John 2:2.

One mistaken view (IMO) is that the Old Testament Saints were "saved" prospectively, God "looked forward" to the crucifixion and declared the OT saints to have the righteousness of God. But the fly in the buttermilk is Hebrews 11:40 where they had to "wait" to be made perfect, and all those in Heaven had been "made perfect."

So how did the saints who were taken to "Abraham's Bosom" become "perfect" and enter heaven?

1) First we know that Jesus preached or proclaimed the gospel to "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19) and that the gospel was preached to some people who had already physically died (1 Peter 4:6). If these were the OT Saints in Abraham's Bosom, what was the result?

2) We can also conjecture that this "proclaiming and preaching" occurred during the time between Christ's death and His bodily resurrection when He was "in the Spirit." (Jesus was also "in the Spirit" when He presented the gospel to those in prison.) See 1 Peter 3:19

3) We know that Jesus was sent to "proclaim" release to "captives." Luke 4:18​

One of the several theories concerning just who were the captives led away were the OT Saints in Abraham's bosom who apparently all accepted and embraced the gospel. Thus by the blood of the Lamb the OT Saints were made perfect, fully reconciled to God such that they could enter heaven.

This is the way that the OT Saints, who were taken to Abraham's bosom were taken to Heaven, having been made perfect, holy and blameless by the blood of the Lamb.