Featured How do Arminians KNOW They are the Elect of God?

Why are you changing the subject? When were we speaking of the source of faith? You said only the elect have faith, I showed you that Calvin and other Calvinists (Monergism dot com) believe many men profess faith but fall away.

I showed you where Jesus himself said men "which for a while believe". I noticed you have conveniently overlooked this verse and failed to answer my question. Did Jesus die for these persons which believed for a while?

I am not telling you what you believe, but you are using that for your big "cop out". Many Calvinists use this argument when they are boxed into a corner, but Calvinism is called Calvinism for a reason because it is founded upon the writings of Calvin and what he believed.

I am telling you what many Calvinists "generally" believe. You believe only God can give a man faith, did God give those persons in Luke 8:13 which believed "for a while" faith? Did God take that faith away? Did Jesus die for these persons which believed for a while?

And why do you give a definition to faith that scripture does not mention? Jesus said only that these persons "believed" for a while. Are you suggesting that Jesus did not know what he was talking about?

And John 6:44-45 does not say one word about God giving men faith. Yes, they do say no man can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father, but then Jesus explains how a man is drawn, by being taught by the Father. Every man that has heard and learned from the Father comes to Jesus. This does not say one word about man needing to be regenerated to have faith as you falsely ascribe to these verses. You are reading into scripture what is not there, and adding to God's word.

 

Even giving Calvinists there best argument - that Arminians must reject OSAS if they are to be consistent - we have this.

 

Just about all Americans who have a surface level knowledge of Christianity think that God loves them and Christ died for them. And that lulls them all the way to Perdition. It is false.

Some Arminian doing "personal work" comes up to a guy and the guy says :"Hey,you just told me that God loves me and that Jesus died for me. I've been told that all my life. So I'm covered. Go away."

 

This is a complete waste of time and energy trying to discuss anything with a person like you. I have better things to do with my time then waste it in this manner. I will leave you and those like you on this forum to God. I am though wasting my time.

 

Ironic that the one who claims to believe in the sovereignty of God over the wills of man takes this approach. I guess God predetermined him to grow frustrated by Winman's predetermined will? :laugh:

 

They believe they're the elect because they tell God they are when they choose to repent and believe and "accept Jesus as their personal Savior".

 

Wise move and biblical to boot. Glad you're getting off his merry go round. :thumbsup:

 

Its a complete waste of time discussing any of this if you are a determinist, in fact if we are not predestined and determined to believe your tripe, you are working against God's will. Repent!

 

"It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".

 

Over simplistic.

God uses means to break people's wills and lead them to the light of truth.

Biblicist and I may be the means whereby webdog is finally broken and says, "Ok, that's it. I have been wrong. My arguments are weak. My posts are usually nothing more but antagonistic trolling drive-by posts. I have been emotionally invested against Calvinism but now I see it. Thank God for his exhaustive Sovereignty!"

 

And you've just practiced the latter and proved Lincoln's point. Congrats!!!!!

 

Your normative vs. determined means have been refuted by Skan more times than I can count. The fact you still stubornly hold to such a silly ideal makes everything in quotes above quite hysterical and worthy material for a christian comedian.

 

So providing a quote means I'm guilty of the quote. :laugh:

Good stuff! :thumbs:

 

And then there is being proud of the accomplishment and fulfillment of Lincoln's quote.

Go figure.

You should really go spend some time in self-examination, worshiping God in His Word and in prayer. I mean that and hope you'll do it and find some success in it. We all need it, and you do especially. :thumbs:

 

LOL a "pastor" that loves conflict, confrontation, arguments, division, strife, bullying and general unchristlike behavior giving that advice should really be taken to heart. <end sarcasm>

 

I do love conflict. Preaching and defending truth is polemic in nature: 2 Tim. 4-1ff. That said I enjoy THAT type of conflict.

Wherever you've come up with bullying and unchristlike behavior is beyond me, that unless you are referring to your own behavior. If you have something specific to show me where I've not been like Christ, do show it. You've done this for years with no hard evidence.

Seriously you should go spend some time in the Word, and in prayer and self-examination by way of exhortation. You've already been reproved, and rebuked, something you can't stomach.

Spend time in the Word. Open that Bible. Pray. Examine. Repent. Praise. Worship. Show forth Christ in your spirit. Glorify him. Go and have some profitable engagement. Who knows, perhaps someday we will be friends and consider one another as such, and we could enjoy a Great Lakes Brew and talk God in person.

 

See, you don't know what you are talking about.

I have never pitted "normative" against "determined" so to say that that position of mine has been refuted is further proof that you are blind.

Determined IS normative.

I might quite literally be the person on this board who is LEAST likely to pit one against the other.

 

Good luck with that.

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: