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How do Calvinists interpret John 3:16
- Thread starter Amy.G
- Start date
Isaiah40:28
New Member
The Bible doesn't leave room for excuses like that.webdog said:
People reject Christ because of their wicked unbelieving hearts not because they found out that God didn't choose them.
Not grammatically or contextually.
I didn't ignore any prepositions. The rest of the verse does describe what the chosen were chosen to, and how it comes about. They were chosen to salvation and salvation comes through faith and setting apart.
Of course, but that wasn't the question, and that is not what the verse says God chose.
Again, just read the verse and see what God chose. It is clearly "you."
Not at all. The Bible does not apply the choice of God to the non-elect. That is you adding to the Bible to try to discredit a position.
Hello Sularis.
I have never heard of unconscious faith, faith is a conscious thing usually. Sometimes it sleeps. HEB 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. (Matt 25:1-5. the virgins.) I think we can sometimes forget what we hope for.
To all the elect only. GAL 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
All part of one body, all with differing functions, all primarily serving the rest, controlled by the Head. Each part as important as each other part, if one part hurts the rest of the body should.
Your 4 and 5 needs some work. I don't believe this faith is unconscious, I also believe we are willing in this conversion because it is God who works in us to will and to act according to his good purpose. Php 2:13.
john.
I have never heard of unconscious faith, faith is a conscious thing usually. Sometimes it sleeps. HEB 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. (Matt 25:1-5. the virgins.) I think we can sometimes forget what we hope for.
To all the elect only. GAL 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
All part of one body, all with differing functions, all primarily serving the rest, controlled by the Head. Each part as important as each other part, if one part hurts the rest of the body should.
Your 4 and 5 needs some work. I don't believe this faith is unconscious, I also believe we are willing in this conversion because it is God who works in us to will and to act according to his good purpose. Php 2:13.
john.
[quoteYou can't claim a glass is either half full or half empty. It's both. God choosing some to be saved means He didn't choose others to be saved. This is common sense and not adding anything to the Bible.[/quote]You are correct, but this is different than what you originally said, which was what I commented on. Don't change your statement midstream.
Isaiah40:28
New Member
Whatever.webdog said:
The Bible teaches that all man are commanded to repent.
Those who do not are unrepentant sinners, not innocent bystanders.
So then can it really be said that God chooses believers? After all, once they believe, he has no choice to reject them, unless he is untrue to his word.
And I think that demonstrates just one of the myriad of problems once you go down the route you have gone.
Hope of Glory
New Member
What does it mean to be saved?
What does "elect" mean?
The Bible talks about many different salvations; some physical, of course, but the two important ones are spiritual salvation and the salvation of the soul.
Jesus died that all might be saved. Everyone. Not just a select few. Anyone can accept the offer. But, only many will.
But, his blood was shed for many. His blood was shed for the remission of sins.
If God chose only a few to be saved, then he also chose the others to remain unsaved. If I go to the store to get apples, the ones I don't select, I reject.
So, let's look at 2 Thessalonians 2:13: But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Who are brethren? It's not all saved people, although many people refer to them as such. Matthew 12:50 tells us that it's those who are being obedient. Not all saved people are obedient.
"From the beginning". Firstfruit. Is everyone who is saved firstfruit? "God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved." You are quite correct that it's "you" that he "chose" in the verse, but he chose you to be firstfruits. (Paul talks quite a bit about firstfruits.) "First" fruits has to do with quality, not order, and if I remember correctly, it's a collective noun, just as "seed" is. When it's plural, it's more than one type of firstfruit (or seed), and when it's singular, it can be more than one, but only one type. So, "y'all (plural) are firstfruits (singular)" still makes sense, just as saying "y'all are corn seed". (Well, it makes sense grammatically, just not realistically.) If you were talking about individual kernels in a hanful of corn, it could be "corn seeds", but "corn seed", when referring to the hanful, while singular is still plural. (If you want more than the HoG so-so eplanation of "collective noun" in English, click here.
"Salvation". What is salvation in this passage?
"Through sanctification." In "holying". Are we saved spiritually through being made holy? Or is being made holy come later?
"Sanctification of the spirit". Holiness of the sprit. It's not clear that this passage is talking about the Holy Spirit, but I believe it is. It's either "sanctification by the Spirit" or "sanctification of spirit".
"And belief of the truth". The word used here is "faith", and it's "faith in truth". There is no definite article.
How in the world anyone could apply this verse to spiritual salvation is beyond me, but many do. In spite of the fact that the book is written to the Church at Thessalonica.
What does "elect" mean?
The Bible talks about many different salvations; some physical, of course, but the two important ones are spiritual salvation and the salvation of the soul.
Jesus died that all might be saved. Everyone. Not just a select few. Anyone can accept the offer. But, only many will.
But, his blood was shed for many. His blood was shed for the remission of sins.
If God chose only a few to be saved, then he also chose the others to remain unsaved. If I go to the store to get apples, the ones I don't select, I reject.
So, let's look at 2 Thessalonians 2:13: But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Who are brethren? It's not all saved people, although many people refer to them as such. Matthew 12:50 tells us that it's those who are being obedient. Not all saved people are obedient.
"From the beginning". Firstfruit. Is everyone who is saved firstfruit? "God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved." You are quite correct that it's "you" that he "chose" in the verse, but he chose you to be firstfruits. (Paul talks quite a bit about firstfruits.) "First" fruits has to do with quality, not order, and if I remember correctly, it's a collective noun, just as "seed" is. When it's plural, it's more than one type of firstfruit (or seed), and when it's singular, it can be more than one, but only one type. So, "y'all (plural) are firstfruits (singular)" still makes sense, just as saying "y'all are corn seed". (Well, it makes sense grammatically, just not realistically.) If you were talking about individual kernels in a hanful of corn, it could be "corn seeds", but "corn seed", when referring to the hanful, while singular is still plural. (If you want more than the HoG so-so eplanation of "collective noun" in English, click here.
"Salvation". What is salvation in this passage?
"Through sanctification." In "holying". Are we saved spiritually through being made holy? Or is being made holy come later?
"Sanctification of the spirit". Holiness of the sprit. It's not clear that this passage is talking about the Holy Spirit, but I believe it is. It's either "sanctification by the Spirit" or "sanctification of spirit".
"And belief of the truth". The word used here is "faith", and it's "faith in truth". There is no definite article.
How in the world anyone could apply this verse to spiritual salvation is beyond me, but many do. In spite of the fact that the book is written to the Church at Thessalonica.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Chose
God did chose us to be saved. The whole world, but whosoever believes are the one's who will be saved.
God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge. Quite arguing with God and believe.
You will not get those who believe the scripture to change the meaning of all to match your understanding.
You say we don't believe one scripture and they come back to say you don't believe in the other scripture, until we stop arguing with God and His word we will never be one, as Jesus prayed for us to be.
God did chose us to be saved. The whole world, but whosoever believes are the one's who will be saved.
God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge. Quite arguing with God and believe.
You will not get those who believe the scripture to change the meaning of all to match your understanding.
You say we don't believe one scripture and they come back to say you don't believe in the other scripture, until we stop arguing with God and His word we will never be one, as Jesus prayed for us to be.
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Ps. , I'll take a snippet of what you said and address it . " God chose us to be saved . The whole world , but whosoever believes are the ones to be saved . "
He chose us to be saved . The word "us" is referring to whom ? He did not choose everyone to be saved . The chosen is another word for the elect . The elect are a limited number of individuals -- not everyone past , present and future .
The Lord chose people from all around the world for Himself -- before the foundation of the world . The Son came to die in the place of , for , in the stead of , becoming the surety of His own .
He chose us to be saved . The word "us" is referring to whom ? He did not choose everyone to be saved . The chosen is another word for the elect . The elect are a limited number of individuals -- not everyone past , present and future .
The Lord chose people from all around the world for Himself -- before the foundation of the world . The Son came to die in the place of , for , in the stead of , becoming the surety of His own .
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psalms109:31
Active Member
elect
The elect are whosoever believes.
God says that those who trust in the Lord will not be disappointed, this our the elect the chosen of God that is hidden from the wise and learned, that God has been revealed to children.
Jesus says whosover believes shall be saved and you can believe God, because these are the elect of God, those who He chose before the foundation of the world.
You can still agree with the scripture that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth without changes to your own understanding.
It simple, but men have misunderstood Pauls teaching to thier own destruction.
The elect are whosoever believes.
God says that those who trust in the Lord will not be disappointed, this our the elect the chosen of God that is hidden from the wise and learned, that God has been revealed to children.
Jesus says whosover believes shall be saved and you can believe God, because these are the elect of God, those who He chose before the foundation of the world.
You can still agree with the scripture that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth without changes to your own understanding.
It simple, but men have misunderstood Pauls teaching to thier own destruction.
If the Lord "wants" anything -- it will infallibly take place . But you and your co. believe that somehow the Lord desires all to be saved , yet He can not quite achieve His goal . That's a pitiful "God" , Ps.
Again , the Gospel needs to be declared throughout the world , but the Lord has already willed the salvation of His sheep alone .
Again , the Gospel needs to be declared throughout the world , but the Lord has already willed the salvation of His sheep alone .
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psalms109:31
Active Member
Scripture
That is human reasoning, if God say's that He want's all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and that only those who trust in the Lord will be save.
Believe the word of God over your own reasoning.
God will complete His word, that whosever believes believes in Jesus shall not perish, but have eternal life.
That is human reasoning, if God say's that He want's all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and that only those who trust in the Lord will be save.
Believe the word of God over your own reasoning.
God will complete His word, that whosever believes believes in Jesus shall not perish, but have eternal life.
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Did God say this in Gen 1:1johnp. said:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and said Eli's house will never be atoned for.
OR
Did God make this statement AFTER Eli had known about his sons evil and did nothing about it according to the Law (his own sin - unconfessed) and that he kicked at (dispised) the sacrifice (atonement) and offerings (fellowship). And God swore there will be no atonement for his house -which died with his two sons and himself.
You still have never delt with the BIBLICAL FACT that up till then God accepted his yearly atonement sacrifice offered up from birth till his rebellion. It was this sacrifice that made him clean to work as a priest in the temple.
As shown time and again - Limited atonement - Disproved by virture of scriptural context.
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