How do you do it?

[Me2]

Yelsew2,

mankind is born with a spirit that is incapable of understanding good and evil. no matter what fables you tell yourself. Adam was created WITHOUT the knowledge of any Good and Evil. When he reached and ate of the forbidden fruit. He didnt obtain Knowledge of Good and evil.
He started a chain of events called "plunging manking into vanity". not plunging mankind into the knowledge of good and evil.

Mankind is CUTOFF from the zoa life which only comes from a righteous God that can only be received or connected to a righteous spirit.

Jesus was unlike any child every born. he was born connected to God. He never was severed from his God.
unlike carnal cursed mankind who is disconnected the second they are born. for their spirit is unrighteous. and incapable of understanding God.
of understanding his knowledge of Good and evil. they only can imagine what God thinks is Good and evil.

Your little chiidrens stories are cute but ineffective for God chooses and teaches whom he desires. He chooses and trains mature individuals.

It is God giving the spirit of his son Jesus to to whom he chooses to allow them to be able to HEAR and to SEE with their new righteous spirit.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

the word of God is not audible. It is spirit.
It is life. It is life giving and life producing.

A child knows nothing about agape love nor will until they are taught via persecution. This is not a childs Game Yelsew. This is for Grown ups no matter what you hear around you. Believers are being trained to love their enemies.

as they prove the inward working of the spirit expressing through them that they are capable of witnessing truth to their fellow man.

Me2

 

[Yelsew2]

Me2

mankind is born with a spirit that is incapable of understanding good and evil. no matter what fables you tell yourself. Adam was created WITHOUT the knowledge of any Good and Evil. When he reached and ate of the forbidden fruit. He didnt obtain Knowledge of Good and evil.
He started a chain of events called "plunging manking into vanity". not plunging mankind into the knowledge of good and evil.

"Good and evil". Wasn't that the tree that Adam and Eve ate the fruit of? Weren't they expelled from the garden because they were now like unto God, having the knowledge of good and evil? Wasn't this after Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God? Isn't the result of their sin that they now have the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL? Because We are descended from ADAM do we not also have that Knowledge of GOOD and EVIL?

Genesis 3:22. Then Yahweh God said, "Now that the man has become like one of us in knowing good from evil, he must not be allowed to reach out his hand and pick from the tree of life too, and eat and live for ever!"
23. So Yahweh God expelled him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he had been taken.
24. He banished the man, and in front of the garden of Eden he posted the great winged creatures and the fiery flashing sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.

If not, When was that KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL taken from them?

Mankind is CUTOFF from the zoa life which only comes from a righteous God that can only be received or connected to a righteous spirit.

Makin' up the rules are you Me2?

Jesus was unlike any child every born. he was born connected to God. He never was severed from his God. unlike carnal cursed mankind who is disconnected the second they are born. for their spirit is unrighteous. and incapable of understanding God. of understanding his knowledge of Good and evil. they only can imagine what God thinks is Good and evil.

Wow, is your god so weak that he cannot tell "totally incapable and depraved man" the difference between good and evil? You might want to try the god in the next booth, I hear she's pretty strong!

Your little chiidrens stories are cute but ineffective for God chooses and teaches whom he desires. He chooses and trains mature individuals.

Suffer the little children to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven. It truly is amazing that you completely overlook the teachings of Jesus, who according to your third paragraph remains fully connected to His God.

It is God giving the spirit of his son Jesus to to whom he chooses to allow them to be able to HEAR and to SEE with their new righteous spirit.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

I suppose that you think the 'spirit' spoken of in this scripture is "THE HOLY SPIRIT". Have you considered that the spoken of spirit is the spirit of man that resides in the flesh of man? If not, you would do well to think of it as such. The spirit of man controls the flesh of man. Without the spirit, man would be nothing more than animal. With it man is uniquely made in the image of God.

A child knows nothing about agape love nor will until they are taught via persecution. This is not a childs Game Yelsew. This is for Grown ups no matter what you hear around you. Believers are being trained to love their enemies.

So Christianity is not for children? So, eternal life is not for children? So agape love does not include children? Your God is not the God of the bible Me2.

 

[Me2]

Yelsew2,

Isn't the result of their sin that they now have the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL? Because We are descended from ADAM do we not also have that Knowledge of GOOD and EVIL?

No…. mankind receives a curse of spiritual death. We await this final sentence in this physical world. we are presently in seperation of Gods knowledge of Good and evil. Unless God gives man his sons spirit. we are disconnected from Gods zoa life. God seperates himself by putting enmity between satans seed and Jesus seed. What knowledge adam can accumulate can only be equal with satan..not God.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Adam got a glimpse of the law. There is a rudimentary selection of the law (10 commandments) given to adam. Yet it is not spirit. it is carnal it is as rules written in adams mind. These laws is the same after the flood..
As we receive Gods seed today. It contains the law. We immediately seek to follow its precepts carnally until we understand they are spirit.by the instructions of the holy spirit..notice adam now has to reach out for the spirit of life to be complete (christ).

Makin' up the rules are you Me2?

Nope!. God makes the game even for all players he chooses to enter the game. Im just explaining the rules.

Wow, is your god so weak that he cannot tell "totally incapable and depraved man" the difference between good and evil?

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Was made subject to vanity…Also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption Yelsew. Adam was placed into this world. Its god is satan . mans temporary god or influence until The Real God replaces Mans spirit with one that is connected to Him who is of another realm.a righteous spiritual realm. Totally depraved mankind is seperated from the Truth of His Knowledge of Good and Evil.
We are born with only the source of Satans knowledge of Good and evil.

Suffer the little children to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven.

again you insert the physical viewpoint. Jesus is speaking of the paralleled view seen within the child of innocence and humility. Wouold you give this child the keys to the kingdom and allow him to run to the ends of the earth preaching the gospel to all men. Teaching them to be desciples? No yelsew. This is a kid. A child. A babe. Not a leader. But a follower for some time to come. Until this child learns how to guide himself. Then the responsibility of guiding others. Stop looking at the word of God carnally and literally. Seek the spirit message.

I suppose that you think the 'spirit' spoken of in this scripture is "THE HOLY SPIRIT". Have you considered that the spoken of spirit is the spirit of man that resides in the flesh of man?

interestingly your close. The spirit of jesus is all in all with the holy spirit. they are one. Mans carnal spirit canot be all in all with the holy spirit because of its unrighteousness. If perchance mans unrighteous spirit was exchanged with the spirit of Christ. then the Holy spirit can dwell within man in the spirit of Christ.
This is the only way yelsew. This si the only way mankind becomes all in all with God. Is to have the righteous spirit of Christ placed within man. You confuse the mind of man with the mind of Christ. we are placed in a chain of command. God, the the spirit of his son. Jesus then our unregenerated mind.
If our mind becomes like jesus. He and we become one in mind.

So Christianity is not for children? So, eternal life is not for children? So agape love does not include children?

I suggest studying agape love and stop your guessing. If I have truth that can help someone. Agape love is giving that truth away to those who need it.
Agape love is someone reaching down from a higher station and administering to someone in a lower station.. in This case God can only administer righteousness to mankind who is in a lower station of spiritual death…

Children are in a state of need and helplessness.. not one of helping others.

Me2

 

[Yelsew2]

No…. mankind receives a curse of spiritual death.

How then can they be held accountable if they have no knowledge of good and evil?

Your God is not a JUST God, because he condemns without cause!

It would be nice if you would drop the idea of spiritual death before conception, because it is not true! It is a BOLD FACED LIE!, and sadly you have bought into it lock, stock and barrel!

 

[Yelsew2]

Adam was placed into this world.

Adam was made of the dust of the earth, not placed in the world....simple chemistry proves this to be true!

 

[Yelsew2]

If our mind becomes like jesus. He and we become one in mind.

How is this possible Me2? You demand that the mind of man be EXCHANGED FOR the mind of Christ. How is it that the mind of man can BECOME LIKE the mind of Jesus if the mind of man must be EXCHANGED FOR the mind of Jesus? You insist that the mind-spirit of man must BE REMOVED and the mind of Christ INSTALLED IN the man for man to be acceptable to God.

Get your story straight Me2, YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS! Either the mind-spirit of man is replaced or it is reborn! The scriptures say it IS NOT REPLACED but instead is reborn, washed whiter than snow, regenerated, has a new persuasion, is converted...NEVER REPLACED!

Scriptures do not say that man's spirit is EXCHANGED FOR the spirit of the Christ!

 

[Me2]

Yelsew2,

Actually we die to body soul and spirit.

we receive a resurrected spirit body.
we receive a resurrected spirit
we receive the mind of christ.

Everything I receive of christ replaces what was of mine. for everything I previously had was a product of a fallen existence. It was temporary existence so that I could be given time to accept and comprehend what was to be eternal and absolute.
what is Spirit.
What is perfect,complete, and outside the boundries of time and space.

we have been designed souls that are individuals, yet the "knowledge of good and evil" is spirit.

this is what we are taught to observe.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Revelation time here. We do not know of men anymore?. Who what where when How!!!

We know men by the spirit. we are now spirit creatures seeing, hearing, feeling by the spirit and not by the physical.

Becoming a spirit creature first means to be completely joined to the resurrected spirit of Chrsit. His spirit, His body, His MIND. A mind which contains the fullness of the Godhead and It is given to mankind. From such a knowledge Base God reveals truths of a highr consiousness than that of carnal physical man that is limited by time and space.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

What is left of self after this joining of man and God Yelsew2 ?
Is man an individual? does he possess an "id"?

That is what this life is about.
discovering what is an individual entity, that is to be joined into a vast spiritual realm where everyone will be all in all. where everyone will be seperated yet together. we will know each others thoughts. past lives and experiences. we will be one eternally.

Our spirit and body is replaced Yelsew, Our mind is regenerated or we exchange choices of truth overagainst error. and as for our memories. their ours as we identify ourselves as individuals by them. this is the lake of fire. the great exchange. the covering over our fears with the recognition that we are what we have chosen. wemust accept what we have chosen for the whole's knowledge base of Good and evil. In this case. we have evidence of evil through our past memories. they will always be with us. alway identifying WHO WE WERE.

This is where the tears wiped away. as we learn that good and evil is relative. it is the accumulated knowledge base of Mankind. we must learn to forgive ourselves as well as forgive each other in the travesties we have participated in.

Yet in the End we will turn our focus on the righteousness of God for we know that good is more powerful than evil. that truth is more powerful than error. That Jesus Christ is Lord.

Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Either you make it true by accepting its true or not. If God called you. there is only two paths to take yet we all reach the same goal eventually.

Me2

 

[Yelsew2]

Me2,

You're so full of phony balony!

You can quote scriptures all day long, but you flat don't know how to connect the dots! You assign False meanings to the Holy Scripture that you quote.

If you knew what you are talking about....?

 

[BBNewton]

Yelsew,

I honestly don't undertand how you can criticize anyone's use of scripture. I quoted Romans 7:18, are here was your response:


"When one is depressed, for whatever reason, one is not thinking clealy or rationally. Paul was a mere mortal just like all the rest of us. As we have our ups and downs, Paul had his. You can see that throughout his writings. When in prison, or some other oppressive situation, Paul is much harder on himself than when he is free and doing what he loves to do...Just like us! So don't take everything Paul wrote so literally! When you do, you come to wrong conclusions! No one stays at the top of their game all the time."


If this is representative of the gogles you wear when you read Paul, how can anyone take any of your theological arguments seriously?

 

[Yelsew2]

Originally posted by BBNewton:
Yelsew,

I honestly don't undertand how you can criticize anyone's use of scripture. I quoted Romans 7:18, are here was your response:


"When one is depressed, for whatever reason, one is not thinking clealy or rationally. Paul was a mere mortal just like all the rest of us. As we have our ups and downs, Paul had his. You can see that throughout his writings. When in prison, or some other oppressive situation, Paul is much harder on himself than when he is free and doing what he loves to do...Just like us! So don't take everything Paul wrote so literally! When you do, you come to wrong conclusions! No one stays at the top of their game all the time."


If this is representative of the gogles you wear when you read Paul, how can anyone take any of your theological arguments seriously?

Then don't! Criticize them all you want, that's what debate is all about, and this is a debate forum!

 

[BBNewton]

Yelsew,

This approach to Paul is new to me. Could you provide me with a list of theologians who use your Pauline hermenuetic?

 

[Yelsew2]

BBNewton,

No!

I do not pay a great deal of attention to "theologians". I am clearly as able to read the scriptures as anyone. I've been reading the scriptures without the help of "theologians" for over 50 years. How many of them can say the same?

If you do not like my approach to the writings of Paul you don't have to agree with me, just consider the Human factor in the writings of the bible authors. God used humans for that purpose to serve His purpose.

Now let's get on with the topic.

 

[Yelsew2]

The inward struggle Roman's 7:14-25.

We are well aware that the Law is spiritual: but I am a creature of flesh and blood sold as a slave to sin. - I do not understand my own behaviour; I do not act as I mean to, but I do things that I hate. - While I am acting as I do not want to, I still acknowledge the Law as good, - so it is not myself acting, but the sin which lives in me. - And really, I know of nothing good living in me, in my natural self, that is, for though the will to do what is good is in me, the power to do it is not: - the good thing I want to do, I never do; the evil thing which I do not want, that is what I do. - But every time I do what I do not want to, then it is not myself acting, but the sin that lives in me. - So I find this rule: that for me, where I want to do nothing but good, evil is close at my side. - In my inmost self I dearly love God's law, -but I see that acting on my body there is a different law which battles against the law in my mind. So I am brought to be a prisoner of that law of sin which lives inside my body. - What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body doomed to death? - God, thanks be to him, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So it is that I myself with my mind obey the law of God, but in my disordered nature I obey the law of sin.

The words of a man in introspection! Look at verses 1 though 6 where Paul is saying that the Christian is freed from the slavery of sin, then from verses 14-25 it is almost as if he is declaring that he is not a Christian, but rather a slave to sin.

Look at the tone of his writing, look at how he is down on himself. A very human human!

 

[BBNewton]

Yelsew,

The reason I asked you for a list of theologians who hold to your position is because I would like to read what they have to say. God has blessed some in the present and past with the gift of Biblical exposition that you and I cannot fathom. I consider it sheer arrogance not to seek their guidance (even if through a commentary). By your statements made above, it seems plain to me you have made up your own standard of Biblical interpretation.

Are you suggesting that the texts in boldface above should be considered to be the ramblings of a depressed man and shouldn't be taken literally?

 

[Yelsew2]

Originally posted by BBNewton:
Yelsew,

The reason I asked you for a list of theologians who hold to your position is because I would like to read what they have to say. God has blessed some in the present and past with the gift of Biblical exposition that you and I cannot fathom. I consider it sheer arrogance not to seek their guidance (even if through a commentary). By your statements made above, it seems plain to me you have made up your own standard of Biblical interpretation.

Are you suggesting that the texts in boldface above should be considered to be the ramblings of a depressed man and shouldn't be taken literally?

I suspect your already held opinion of those I could list would taint your ability to read them properly anyway, so I won't list them, with one exception, and that is one who refused to be labeled "a theologian". His name is Aden W. Tozer, and among many other easy to read books he wrote "The Knowledge of the Holy" a 100 page introduction to the Attributes of Deity. If you have not read it, I strongly recommend it. But beware, it may very well alter your views.

What makes you think that God does not bless every man with the ability to read and understand His Holy Word as He intended it to be understood? He did say, seek and ye shall find, Knock and the door will open. He was not speaking to "theologians" but to the common man!

He was not speaking to Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests, He was speaking to the ordinary person, the meek and lowly, the oppressed, the thirsty, the hungry, the tired, the weak, the pew-sitter, the choir member, the offering collector, the laborer, the manager, the professional, the hourly worker, etc. Every one of us has the same possibility because God made us that way and gave his word universally to all, so that "any out of ALL" who would hear and believe, can have everlasting life.

Read vs 1-6 then 14-25 pay attention to the man Paul!

 

[BBNewton]

Yelsew,

No, not every person is blessed with the desire to study and comprehend the Word.


14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

People hate God and his Word too much to ever want to study it. Should we take 1 Corinthians 2 literally, or was Paul writing from a bad mindset?

 

[Yelsew2]

No, not every person is blessed with the desire to study and comprehend the Word

If you would read what I posted, you would see that what you quoted is not what I said which is,

What makes you think that God does not bless every man with the ability to read and understand His Holy Word as He intended it to be understood? He (Jesus, the Son of God, the CHRIST), did say, seek and ye shall find, Knock and the door will open. He was not speaking to "theologians" but to the common man!

So it matters little what Paul said on the matter, Jesus is the authority on what God gave to man, and not Paul.

 

[BBNewton]

Yelsew,

"So it matters little what Paul said on the matter, Jesus is the authority on what God gave to man, and not Paul."

Your view is very sad. The Pauline epistles are part of the revealed Word of God; it always matters what Paul wrote on every matter because he wrote as the Spirit guided him.

You theology is rotten to the core, and now I understand why. Please heed my advice and do not disreguard the gospel according the Paul.

Galatians 1:8,9

 

[Yelsew2]

DON'T BROADBRUSH ME OR MY THEOLOGY BBNEWTON! YOU ARE WRONG TO DO SO!

My comment is about one thing not the whole Word of God!

When YOU, BB NEWTON, extract a single verse that is part of a greater thought written by a human being who is attempting to explain one thing of God, and declare it to be the Whole word of God, YOU are quite simply WRONG!

The Whole word of God does not agree 100% with Paul and neither do I, especially where Deity has already spoken on the issue that Paul is attempting to explain.

My argument with you is your insistence on taking scripture out of its context and declaring it to be a complete thought!

 

[BBNewton]

Yelsew,

Why do you worry about context? You take parts of the Pauline epistles and then declare them to not be taken literally because:
a. You believe Paul was in an emotionally distressed state when he wrote, therefore it could be a display of his humanity, or
b. You believe Paul contradicted other parts of Scripture and (or?) your theology.

I think I'm starting to see how your system works. How about Psalm 51:5:

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

a. David was definitely in an emotionally dismal state when he wrote this statement, and

b. The idea of someone being sinful from the time of conception contradicts Pelagian theology.

Yes, this verse (and a large portion of the Psalms) can simply be dismissed. Right?