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How does Revealtion 20:10 Support annihilation?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Will they give you a refund?
And just when I thought we could have a respectful discussion. Too bad, but some just have to show their backside.
You lost the debate, amigo.
Actually, no. I proved that the word translated "eternal" in relation to hell is a mistranslation. The word in the original is "aionios" which means age or age-long. That is a fact. And an age is not an eternity. No one can make an age mean an eternity. You cannot make the original language say or mean "eternal" except by a faulty, misleading translation.
Still, I did not get snarky with you.
Ay, amigo, you lost.
Do you dispute that the word translated "eternal" in regards to hell actually means age-long? If so, you are wrong and do not accept the literal meaning. The word is "aion" -- an age, or "aionios" -- age-long. You can deny that all you want but it doesn't change the fact.
I forgot to answer the first part of your post. Believers have eternal life, as long as they continue to believe. Do you hold that God takes away our freedom to choose after we become believers? I believe that we retain the freedom to choose, in this life and the next.
Well, Matthew Henry says that the beast and the false prophet are thrown into hell forever at the end of the millennium, as I quoted above. So we are looking for two specific individuals, aren't we?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Beast/False Prophet = State/Church = RCC and Islam
No they don't. Those things are temporal institutions. Islam did not even begin until 1400 years ago. And God allowed government.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If you are a "futurist" this is a problem. But Revelation is about things shortly coming to pass in John's day. It provides a framework that identifies historic, present, and future conditions that meet the criteria for the Beast and False prophet. The Papacy was the biggie so far, but Islam shows promise today along with the Papacy whose deadly wound was healed when the Vatican became a sovereign state again in 1929.
Are you saying 20:10 does not refer to hell?
"τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων." Forever and ever".
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When used with articles, in series, the meaning is strengthened. As it is in Revelation 8s means forever and ever. εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων.
And certainly it can mean eternal else when from BDAG
"of time to come which, if it has no end, is also known as eternity (so commonly in Gk. lit. Pla. et al.); εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα (since Isocr. 10, 62, also Diod. S. 1, 56, 1 εἰς τ. αἰ.=εἰς ἅπαντα τ. χρόνον; 4, 1, 4; SIG 814, 49 and OGI index VIII; POxy 41, 30=‘Long live the Caesars’; PGM 8, 33; 4, 1051 [εἰς αἰ.]; LXX; En12:6; 102:3; PsSol 2:34, 37; ParJer 8:5; JosAs 15:3 εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα χρόνον 4:10 al. Jos., Ant. 7, 356 [εἰς αἰ.]) to eternity, eternally, in perpetuity: live J 6:51, 58; B 6:3; remain J 8:35ab; 12:34; 2 Cor 9:9 (Ps. 111:9); 1 Pt 1:23 v.l., 25 (Is 40:8); 1J 2:17; 2J 2; be with someone J 14:16. Be priest Hb 5:6; 6:20; 7:17, 21, 24, 28 (each Ps 109:4). Darkness reserved Jd 13. W. neg.=never, not at all, never again (Ps 124:1; Ezk 27:36 al.) Mt 21:19; Mk 3:29; 11:14; 1 Cor 8:13. ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX) 1 Cl 10:4 (Gen 13:15); Hv 2, 3, 3; s 9, 24, 4. In Johannine usage the term is used formulaically without emphasis on eternity (Lackeit [s. 4 below] 32f): never again thirst J 4:14; never see death 8:51f; cp. 11:26; never be lost 10:28; never (= by no means) 13:8. εἰς τὸν αἰ. τοῦ αἰῶνος (Ps 44:18; 82:18 al.) Hb 1:8 (Ps 44:7). ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX; PsSol 18:11) Lk 1:55 v.l. (for εἰς τὸν αἰ.); εἰς ἡμέραν αἰῶνος 2 Pt 3:18.–The pl. is also used (Emped., fgm. 129, 6 αἰῶνες=generations; Theocr. 16, 43 μακροὺς αἰῶνας=long periods of time; Philod. περὶ θεῶν 3 fgm. 84; Sext. Emp., Phys. 1, 62 εἰς αἰῶνας διαμένει; SibOr 3, 767; LXX, En; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 3 [Stone p. 72].–B-D-F §141, 1), esp. in doxologies: εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας (Ps 60:5; 76:8) Mt 6:13 v.l.; Lk 1:33 (cp. Wsd 3:8); Hb 13:8. εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ. (Tob 13:4; Da 3:52b; En9:4; SibOr 3, 50) Jd 25b. εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας to all eternity (cp. Ps 88:53) Ro 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor 11:31. αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰ. Ro 11:36; ᾧ κτλ. 16:27 (v.l. αὐτῷ). τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰ. 1 Pt 5:11; more fully εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων (Ps 83:5; GrBar 17:4; PGM 4, 1038; 22b, 15) for evermore in doxologies Ro 16:27 v.l.; Gal 1:5; Phil 4:20; 1 Ti 1:17; 2 Ti 4:18; Hb 13:21; 1 Pt 4:11; 5:11 v.l.; Rv 1:6, 18; 5:13; 7:12; 11:15 al. 1 Cl 20:12; 32:4; 38:4; 43:6; εἰς πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰ. Eph 3:21 (cp. Tob 1:4; 13:12; En103:4; 104:5). Of God ὁ ζῶν εἰς τοὺς αἰ. (cp. Tob 13:2; Sir 18:1; Da 6:27 Theod.) Rv 4:9f; 10:6; 15:7; formulaically=eternal 14:11; 19:3; 20:10; 22:5.–κατὰ πρόθεσιν τῶν αἰώνων according to the eternal purpose Eph 3:11. All-inclusive ἀπὸ αἰώνων καὶ εἰς τ. αἰῶνας from (past) eternity to (future) eternity B 18:2 (cp. Ps 40:14 and Ps.-Aristot., De Mundo 7, 401a, 16 ἐξ αἰῶνος ἀτέρμονος εἰς ἕτερον αἰῶνα; M. Ant. 9, 28, 1 ἐξ αἰῶνος εἰς αἰῶνα; SibOr fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος)."
You are trying to limit the range of αἰών.
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How do you know that Revelation was about the 1st century and why are you talking about the 20th century and when did Jesus sit in Jerusalem for 1000 years?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus limited the kingdom to being spiritual. If we read a Physical kingdom into Revelation 20 we add to the book. Besides, the 1000 year in Revelation 20 represent Satan's binding, not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end.
Not according to you they don't! If the Greek word does not mean "eternal" but only refers to an "age" then we don't have eternal life for the exact same Greek word is used!
Same word as is used to say we have eternal life. Eternal - aion or aionios. If it does not mean "eternal" then we don't have eternal life and the bible is a lie.
No, you don't. If you could read Greek you would know that the same word is used for "eternal" life. If hell is not eternal neither is eternal life, and if we don't have eternal life then the bible is a lie.
You said ainois does not mean "eternal." So you deny all of these verses.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal (aionios), that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal (aionios) life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
2Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal (aionios) in the heavens.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal (aion), immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal (aionios) life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal (aionios) Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal (aionios) glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal (aionios) life, and this life is in his Son.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal (aionios) life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal (aionios) life.
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal (aionios) life.
Dave, how do you know that the 1000 years of Jesus in Jerusalem is spiritual and not physical?