how does the RCC officially View the papacy?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Then you would be wrong.

Right...they left because the RCC became an intolerable farse posing as the true church of Jesus Christ.

 

[Moriah]

In what way? To ask you questions like do you love Catholics? How is that bad?

You asked me if I was secretly praying that Catholics go to hell just to find out I am right.

That is evil thinking about me.

Good. I pray that they are in heaven.

I believe God considers whether someone ever heard the truth, as they never did. Catholics were taught not to listen to others beliefs about God.

How? I've had many baptist tell me I'm hell bound. It seems a fair question.

I am not a Baptist. I believe there are people who are spiritually blind, and I believe God considers that too.

Which you said you haven't since you still sin.

I told you I gave up sins, why do you keep saying I have not.

That's not what Jesus said. He said if those parts of your body causes you to sin cut them off. He didn't say if you're still working on your salvation you can keep them.

Paul says to work out our salvation. Jesus tells us if your hand causes you to sin cut it off better to enter the kingdom of God with one than to have two and thrown in hell. This is a strong statement against sin. If a person were getting sin out of their life, then why would they cut off a body part when they are making progress? Can we reason together here? If I stopped sinning with my eyes, and I feel accomplished with this, and I see it can be done, so then I stop sinning with my hand, and I see this is good, why would I stop there and now just start cutting off body parts?

Yes he does he wants us to stop sinning. But that doesn't mean he wants us to cut off limbs.

If you take what Jesus says seriously, then you will seriously start cutting sin out of your life and not your limbs! However, if you make what Jesus says as a hyperbole, then you will not take him seriously, and you will be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That is precisely why most people leave the Baptist faith - they simply do not grasp the truth. For example, you do not grasp the truth that there is no such thing as a justified man by faith without works who is not also a regenerated man whose profession of faith is evidenced by good works (Eph. 2:8-10) without confusing justification with regeneration.

Solid point Bible Boy!

 

[Moriah]

Solid point Bible Boy!

Biblicist has a fan club I see.

Get ready for Biblicist to knock you on the head if you do not believe everything else he says. Lol

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You asked me if I was secretly praying that Catholics go to hell just to find out I am right.

Yes I did question it. I don't know what you think which is why I asked. As I've told you I've gotten that from other baptist. But you are CoC right? I haven't had dealings with the CoC except on this board so it might not have been a fair question. But if you were inundated with Anti-Catholic Chick tracts from a fundamentalist Baptist brother in law who insist I'm going to hell wouldn't you ask the same question?

That is evil thinking about me.

I was questioning the motivation. I wasn't implying that you did that which is why it is phrased in the form of a question. I was implying that could have been a motivation for you. However, since you are offended by it I apologize and take it back. Still in what spirit do you come at Catholic using Anti-Catholic Rhetoric? Note, I don't go around calling other denominations devil worshipers and their pastor are proclaiming the doctrines of Satan. I don't use anti-protestant rhetoric. I pray all protestants are saved and will obtain grace.

I believe God considers whether someone ever heard the truth, as they never did. Catholics were taught not to listen to others beliefs about God.

That isn't true as well. BTW more same old misinformation. The Catholic Church teaches that truth can be revealed in some way in faiths apart from the catholic faith but that the truth is fully represented in the Catholic faith.
Which often gets confused with people implying that the Catholic Church muslims and budhist are saved. That is not what the church is saying it is saying that there is some truths in their religion such as it is but that doesn't equate to the fulness of saving truth.

I am not a Baptist. I believe there are people who are spiritually blind, and I believe God considers that too.

Hey so do I. BTW I just remembered that you were CoC.

I told you I gave up sins, why do you keep saying I have not

because you have admitted previously that you still sin. You gave up some sins but you haven't stopped sinning.

Paul says to work out our salvation.

Yes with fear and trembling.

Jesus tells us if your hand causes you to sin cut it off better to enter the kingdom of God with one than to have two and thrown in hell. This is a strong statement against sin.

Yes it is. It is intentionally strong. But do you think Jesus is actually saying to cut off your arm or is he exagerating the point to give strength to his emphais? I hold to the latter. And since you still sin and still have body parts I believe that is what you actually think as well.

If a person were getting sin out of their life, then why would they cut off a body part when they are making progress?

Jesus doesn't say anything about making progress and progress is a relative term progress in relationship to what?

Can we reason together here?

I've been attempting to.

If I stopped sinning with my eyes, and I feel accomplished with this, and I see it can be done, so then I stop sinning with my hand, and I see this is good, why would I stop there and now just start cutting off body parts?

Let us reason then. You say you have stopped sinning yet you have had you still sin. Now. What I think you are trying to get at is that you don't commit the same sins you use to but commit different sins. But Jesus doesn't make that distinction either. He's not saying when you stopped the current sin and start a new one then its ok not to cut off your arm. He's saying don't sin period and if a body part causes a sin cut it off. New sins are included in Jesus' discourse. And if its only thoughts in which you sin then cut out your brain following the example if you take it literally. But Jesus was speaking in hyperbole.

If you take what Jesus says seriously, then you will seriously start cutting sin out of your life and not your limbs!

Exactly! So you don't take him literally either! But you do get the seriousness of sin and Jesus' call for us to cut sin out of our lives!

However, if you make what Jesus says as a hyperbole

, Because it is.

then you will not take him seriously, and you will be in danger of hell fire

Not at all I take that passage very seriously! I try to operate in grace so that I don't fall into sin! Because you are right all sins put you in danger of hell.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes I did question it. I don't know what you think which is why I asked. As I've told you I've gotten that from other baptist. But you are CoC right? I haven't had dealings with the CoC except on this board so it might not have been a fair question. But if you were inundated with Anti-Catholic Chick tracts from a fundamentalist Baptist brother in law who insist I'm going to hell wouldn't you ask the same question?

I was questioning the motivation. I wasn't implying that you did that which is why it is phrased in the form of a question. I was implying that could have been a motivation for you. However, since you are offended by it I apologize and take it back. Still in what spirit do you come at Catholic using Anti-Catholic Rhetoric? Note, I don't go around calling other denominations devil worshipers and their pastor are proclaiming the doctrines of Satan. I don't use anti-protestant rhetoric. I pray all protestants are saved and will obtain grace.



That isn't true as well. BTW more same old misinformation. The Catholic Church teaches that truth can be revealed in some way in faiths apart from the catholic faith but that the truth is fully represented in the Catholic faith.
Which often gets confused with people implying that the Catholic Church muslims and budhist are saved. That is not what the church is saying it is saying that there is some truths in their religion such as it is but that doesn't equate to the fulness of saving truth.

Hey so do I. BTW I just remembered that you were CoC.

because you have admitted previously that you still sin. You gave up some sins but you haven't stopped sinning.

Yes with fear and trembling.
Yes it is. It is intentionally strong. But do you think Jesus is actually saying to cut off your arm or is he exagerating the point to give strength to his emphais? I hold to the latter. And since you still sin and still have body parts I believe that is what you actually think as well.
Jesus doesn't say anything about making progress and progress is a relative term progress in relationship to what? I've been attempting to.
Let us reason then. You say you have stopped sinning yet you have had you still sin. Now. What I think you are trying to get at is that you don't commit the same sins you use to but commit different sins. But Jesus doesn't make that distinction either. He's not saying when you stopped the current sin and start a new one then its ok not to cut off your arm. He's saying don't sin period and if a body part causes a sin cut it off. New sins are included in Jesus' discourse. And if its only thoughts in which you sin then cut out your brain following the example if you take it literally. But Jesus was speaking in hyperbole.


Exactly! So you don't take him literally either! But you do get the seriousness of sin and Jesus' call for us to cut sin out of our lives!

, Because it is.
Not at all I take that passage very seriously! I try to operate in grace so that I don't fall into sin! Because you are right all sins put you in danger of hell.

My prayers are for BOTH of you to see the Gospel truth and hold to just that!

Right now, you 2 are like Jesus saying the blind leading the blind, both going into the ditch!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

My prayers are for BOTH of you to see the Gospel truth and hold to just that!

Right now, you 2 are like Jesus saying the blind leading the blind, both going into the ditch!

A case of the Pot calling the Kettle black if I have ever seen it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Biblicist has a fan club I see.

Get ready for Biblicist to knock you on the head if you do not believe everything else he says. Lol

Ive know him in different iterations already & we have tangled from time to time. While I generally agree with him regarding RCC, Im not a fan of some of the tactics he employs....but thats my opinion. And you know what opinions are like. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Moriah]

That isn't true as well. BTW more same old misinformation. The Catholic Church teaches that truth can be revealed in some way in faiths apart from the catholic faith but that the truth is fully represented in the Catholic faith.
Which often gets confused with people implying that the Catholic Church muslims and budhist are saved. That is not what the church is saying it is saying that there is some truths in their religion such as it is but that doesn't equate to the fulness of saving truth.

Stop saying what I say is not true. I was taught not to listen to other religions. I was told that if I did not believe all what the Catholics taught that I would be apostate. I was taught that if I left the Catholic Church I would be condemned to hell.

Now stop saying what I have said is not true.

 

[Moriah]

Ive know him in different iterations already & we have tangled from time to time. While I generally agree with him regarding RCC, Im not a fan of some of the tactics he employs....but thats my opinion. And you know what opinions are like. :smilewinkgrin:

Well, we do need our opinions don’t we. Lol

 

[Moriah]

A case of the Pot calling the Kettle black if I have ever seen it.

I think you are right there!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Stop saying what I say is not true. I was taught not to listen to other religions.

Well, if what you are saying isn't true than that what I will say. It isn't true.

I was told that if I did not believe all what the Catholics taught that I would be apostate.

By whom your family? Not all lay people get the Actual teaching of the Church. In one sense you are right if you leave the Church teaching having been properly taught and turned away from Christ you would be apostate. But thats different from what you previously said. which was

I believe God considers whether someone ever heard the truth, as they never did. Catholics were taught not to listen to others beliefs about God.

Certainly we can see that there is some truth in other beliefs but that is not the same as the full truth.

I was taught that if I left the Catholic Church I would be condemned to hell.

Well, you were mistaught. The Church Documents actually state that if you weren't properly Catachized and left out of ignorance to lets say a protestant faith that you still may be saved. But if you had invincible ignorance that is knowing the full truth and left the church then you truelly apostated.

Not stop saying what I have said is not true.

If it is not I will still say it.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I think you are right there!

at least we agree on something

 

[Yeshua1]

Really...so what's your definition of a real church? :tongue3:

one that preaches/teaches the real Gospel of yeshua, as per His Apostles!

 

[Moriah]

But you are CoC right? I haven't had dealings with the CoC except on this board so it might not have been a fair question. But if you were inundated with Anti-Catholic Chick tracts from a fundamentalist Baptist brother in law who insist I'm going to hell wouldn't you ask the same question?

I am not CoC. I have no denomination, not even non-denomination. I am a Christian who belongs to the body of Christ.
I read the Bible, and then I see that Catholic go against the Word.
I have looked at the Jack Chick site maybe once. I think he exposed many false teachings of many religions, but I do not agree with everything he says.

I was questioning the motivation. I wasn't implying that you did that which is why it is phrased in the form of a question. I was implying that could have been a motivation for you. However, since you are offended by it I apologize and take it back. Still in what spirit do you come at Catholic using Anti-Catholic Rhetoric? Note, I don't go around calling other denominations devil worshipers and their pastor are proclaiming the doctrines of Satan. I don't use anti-protestant rhetoric. I pray all protestants are saved and will obtain grace.

I do not get into telling people if they are saved or not. I usually get told by others that I am not saved, and when I measure to them what they measured to me they do not like it.
I do love telling people if they are practicing a false doctrine. I love telling them the truth, so that they can know Jesus better.

Yes it is. It is intentionally strong. But do you think Jesus is actually saying to cut off your arm or is he exagerating the point to give strength to his emphais? I hold to the latter. And since you still sin and still have body parts I believe that is what you actually think as well.

I think Jesus is serious about cutting off what cause us to sin. If I did not take Jesus serious, I might not have gotten rid of the sins that I have.

Jesus doesn't say anything about making progress and progress is a relative term progress in relationship to what?

So are you saying we cannot reason together? Jesus says IF it causes you to sin…so if your hand stops causing you to sin…why would you cut it off.

Let us reason then. You say you have stopped sinning yet you have had you still sin. Now. What I think you are trying to get at is that you don't commit the same sins you use to but commit different sins. But Jesus doesn't make that distinction either. He's not saying when you stopped the current sin and start a new one then its ok not to cut off your arm.

If I am not sinning with my hand, then it means I am not sinning with my hand. It does not mean I traded sins.

And if its only thoughts in which you sin then cut out your brain following the example if you take it literally. But Jesus was speaking in hyperbole.

If you are sinning with your thoughts, then you can stop doing that too. The Bible tells us what to think about,
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
It gets easier and easier to take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ.

 

[Moriah]

at least we agree on something

Maybe that's a start.

 

[Wittenberger]

Its a sound you make with your tongue. Its the equivalent of one shaking their head side to side.


It is. Because its the same rhetoric always used against Catholics. You certainly love your version of Jesus. Do you love me? Do you love Catholic Apologists? Do you love Catholics who disagree with your interpretation of scripture? Or are you secretly praying that we go to hell just to find out you're right?

Nope I read scripture and I obey God. But thanks for the offer.

You haven't as you have already admitted you still sin. You haven't eradicated sin from your life yet.

Honestly, that is good and I congragulate you. Really, however, Jesus says to avoid sin to cut off that body part you sin with and doesn't say if you stop desiring to sin you're cool he said to stop sin not just stop desiring to sin.


I do understand. You say you still sin. You say you take it literally that Jesus wants you to avoid sin by cutting off that part of the body which causes the sin or commits that sin to prevent future sin with that body part. either you don't take him literally or you don't follow what he said.


But you still sin according to you. are you sayiing you no longer sin with your eyes or arms what about your brain? cut that out too.

He absolutely does if you read most bible commentaries.

I think you need to go back to the dictionary. Jesus means what he said in both cases but he used an extreme to make his point. Just as a book doesn't actually weigh a ton neither does Jesus think you should cut off your arm but makes the point not to allow for temptation to sin in your life.

PLEASE! No cutting off of arms and legs!

 

[Moriah]

By whom your family? Not all lay people get the Actual teaching of the Church.

The Catholic religion taught us that, and my parents taught us too.

In one sense you are right if you leave the Church teaching having been properly taught and turned away from Christ you would be apostate.

No, it is not turning away from Christ, it is turning away from the Catholic’s false teachings.

But thats different from what you previously said. which was

Certainly we can see that there is some truth in other beliefs but that is not the same as the full truth.

You are sounding contradictory. What I said was clear, that we were taught not to even listen to the false teachings of other denominations, that they taught falseness, or else they would be Catholic.

Well, you were mistaught. The Church Documents actually state that if you weren't properly Catachized and left out of ignorance to lets say a protestant faith that you still may be saved. But if you had invincible ignorance that is knowing the full truth and left the church then you truelly apostated.

You keep going against me by saying I was not taught what I say I was taught, or that I was “mistaught”. I am telling you what the Catholic Church taught. I am telling you things that I can prove by giving you quotes to what the popes said.

I was a Traditional Roman Catholic. We agreed with the popes before the second council. We accepted pope John Paul as pope, but thought he was changing what the other popes and Catholics and believed for centuries. It was for ecumenical reasons that John Paul says what he says. The current pope Benedict is more as the Traditional Catholics, he tries to bring back more of the ways before the second council.

If it is not I will still say it.

Even if you said you can prove it, I would question it, because I have said things to you and you say I am wrong but then you end up saying the same thing I did. What is that? To say I am wrong and then act as if you are correcting me.

 

[Moriah]

PLEASE! No cutting off of arms and legs!

Just stop sinning. :thumbsup:

 

[Yeshua1]

Just stop sinning. :thumbsup:

Do we have to attain "sinless perfection" before the Lord will save us then?