atpollard
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Dr. Chad Causey, VP of One Hope.
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How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ;
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Scott Downey
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Man wont go to a seperate place of hell from devils, Have you considered that God made hell for the devils as perhaps they fell first. Fallen men are aligned with Satan and at enmity , hatred with God.
Birds of a feather flock together, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
A person who is at enmity wont listen to the words of another as they are at war with them. Just like you are with calvinists, you wont listen or consider their words to have any truth in their doctrines. Others on here even separate themselves from the 'evil' God of the calvinists, calling Him evil, and they don't believe in an evil God.
Romans 8:6-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
People who are in the flesh can't please God, and they wont believe in Christ. You must first be born again, become of Him in the Spirit, as in born again, then you will believe in Christ, otherwise you are at enmity, hatred with Christ.
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
Scott Downey
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And he called God the 'evil' God of the calvinists. So he has separated himself from the true God as He has revealed Himself in many scriptures.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Whoever does not believe is not drawn. That is what Jesus tells us.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Whoever believes, believes solely because God drew them to himself.
Humans will naturally choose a religious scheme where they have control. Even Christians tend to gravitate to legalism where rules and regulations determine your merit in gaining the kingdom. When you insist upon you being the chooser rather than God choosing you, you exhibit the same legalism. You want control. Fight for control is couched in a non-threatening word like "free-will", but the reality is that word means "I have control."
The same holds true with all other religions. Humans control their destiny by the zealously and fervency of their disciplined devotion.
But, when we recognize that God chooses and God does the work of sanctification, we realize that all we are or will become is solely by God's work of grace in our lives. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me...
I don't interpret scripture. I accept it for what it says. You replace scripture with your bunk and call it interpretation.
MB
Particular
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If that were true, you would accept how the verses around your pet sentence give clarity to your pet sentence. But, you don't. In fact, you dislike it when context is used to interpret your pet sentence.
So, the reality is that you don't accept what God is saying through the author. You only accept your myopic lens.
No, Scripture is for EVERYONE. All the intel we have of God is from Scripture. Whoever has heard of God thru spoken words can thank Scripture for supplying the speaker with his/her intel.
The LOF was created for the devil & his angels. But by dying with unforgiven sins, people have qualified for it as well.
But I must laugh at the "all are predestinated" gang. They don't know what was in my mind before I was saved, and how I chose to repent of sin & come to Jesus in belief & submission, & in love for suffering & dying for me. They keep trying to tell me I was led, drawn, etc. but I came of my own free will & volition; God didn't force me or show me a miracle, etc.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Not according to Jesus. Jesus says you were dragged to God by God according to his gracious choice of you.
You did respond, but that response came after God took your "dead in trespasses and sins" self and "made you alive with Christ."
We cannot respond until God makes us alive with Christ. (Ephesians 2:1-10)
Same old bull.
MB
Yes, God made me alive with Jesus after I chose to come to Him.
You're still trying to tell me what I felt or thought! You Kalvinators are so full of horsefeathers !
I never said any such thing it's the bull Calvinist claim about those passages. All Calvinism is bull
MB
Particular
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Particular
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So you reject John 6:44, which tells you the exact opposite. Why do you reject what Jesus tells you?
Dave G
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Me neither.
All I did was believe His words.
I freely believed them with no coercion needed.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'm glad, because so do I, MB.
However, here are some that I happen to think that you might not believe for what they say, because it seems we keep going over this ground again and again:
" Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee], that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple." ( Psalms 65:4 ).
" But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. " ( John 6:64-65 ).
" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." ( Romans 8:29-30 ).
" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. " ( John 10:26-28 ).
" All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]." ( Matthew 11:27 ).
Do you accept these for what they say, MB?
Frankly, I have to confess to being baffled...
On the one hand you state that you believe God's word for what it says, and on the other, when it's put right in front of you, you don't seem to be willing to believe what it says...
In other words, what is written seems to be giving you a problem, from where I'm sitting.
Respectfully, would you help to clear that up for me?
I can't seem to resolve what I see in your forum posts, with what keeps being presented by people who are posting God's words to you.
What do you see when you read the verses above?
I'm curious.
Take them one at a time, if necessary, but I really would like to know what they mean to you when you read them for yourself.
Also, if this thread runs out and gets locked before you have a chance to answer, please PM me with your answers.
Thank you, sir, for taking the time to reply to me.
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Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
The deeds of those who come to the light (Christ) are wrought in God's power, not their own.
So then what they did, they did because they were done in God. As in God working in them.
John 3
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
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