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How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
I should be announced for whoever believes. If we offer it, the gospel becomes law and obedience becomes the savior.
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So was the Apostle Paul wrong when he wrote, ". . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: . . . " -- 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
So was the Apostle Paul was wrong when he wrote, ". . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: . . . " -- 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ?
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He was stating a fact. The tares will burn.......
 
37818

37818

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robycop3 said:
Well, then how could faith have come to those God hadn't directly spoken to? (Besides those who witnessed miracles)
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Preaching precedes hearing, hearing preceded repentance, repentance precedes believing, believing precedes regeneration. Now that is how I understand this.
 
Mikey

Mikey

Active Member
37818 said:
So am I to understand that you do not believe the gospel of grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone? Ephesians 2:8-9. And/or you do not accept the gospel of John which fails to mention this repentance at all following faith? John 6:47, ". . . He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. . . ." Etc.

And you fail to provide one passage which explicitly states in any way, "believe and repent" in order to be saved.
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Of course I believe saved by Grace through Faith alone :rolleyes:.

What about Mark 1:14-15 ?
"Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying,“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

or Acts 2:38

"Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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1689Dave said:
You must believe before you would ever think of repenting. Jesus is telling his Jewish to have a change of mind and believe the gospel.
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Just too, too easy...

Repentance, then belief. We can see the proper sequence here:

For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Matthew 21:32

“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
Mark 1:15

Furthermore, the thing the Jews in Jesus' day needed to repent of was unbelief! So how could they believe so they could repent of unbelief?!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Just too, too easy...

Repentance, then belief. We can see the proper sequence here:

For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Matthew 21:32

Furthermore, the thing the Jews in Jesus' day needed to repent of was unbelief! So how could they believe so they could repent of unbelief?!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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Repent = change of mind = Jews embrace the New Covenant.
 
Y

Yeshua1

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Site Supporter
Mikey said:
Of course I believe saved by Grace through Faith alone :rolleyes:.

What about Mark 1:14-15 ?
"Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying,“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

or Acts 2:38

"Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
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The repentance being addressed here though is not a sinner repenting of all of his sins becore coming to Jesus to get saved, but of change in how they view the very nature of salvation, as in repenting of trying to get saved by anything they can do, and to rely and trust only in what Jesus had already done for them! Repenting of saving themselves by their so called good works and deeds!
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
Repent = change of mind = Jews embrace the New Covenant.
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Yes, repent then believe. That is the sequence.

You yourself said:

1689Dave said:
Jesus is telling his Jewish to have a change of mind and believe the gospel.
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Of course you also said:

1689Dave said:
But they believe or they wouldn't change their mind.
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1689Dave said:
You must believe before you would ever think of repenting.
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So you are contradicting yourself. (Again.)

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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Yes, repent then believe. That is the sequence.

You yourself said:



Of course you also said:




So you are contradicting yourself. (Again.)

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Repent and believe = something far different to OT Jews than is does to potential converts.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
Repent and believe = something far different to OT Jews than is does to potential converts.
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LOL!

Just upstream in response to someone saying Gentiles needed a change of mind to believe you said:

1689Dave said:
They were born again just like Abraham.
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You are contradicting yourself. Again.

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Mikey

Mikey

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
The repentance being addressed here though is not a sinner repenting of all of his sins becore coming to Jesus to get saved, but of change in how they view the very nature of salvation, as in repenting of trying to get saved by anything they can do, and to rely and trust only in what Jesus had already done for them! Repenting of saving themselves by their so called good works and deeds!
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i'll try and explain my position clearly. I believe the distinction between repentance and faith is futile. for faith without repentance is not faith, and repentance without faith is not repentance. coming to faith and repentance is simultaneous.

.Here an article form Sinclair B. Ferguson

Faith and Repentance: Which Comes First? | Banner of Truth USA
 
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Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Mikey said:
i'll try and explain my position clearly. I believe the distinction between repentance and faith is futile. for faith without repentance is not faith, and repentance without faith is not repentance. coming to faith and repentance is simultaneous.

.Here an article form Sinclair B. Ferguson

Faith and Repentance: Which Comes First? | Banner of Truth USA
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They would be like the flip sides of a coin, as in real salvation, both are happening, as both of them would be due to the Holy Spirit Himself producing them in us!
 
robycop3

robycop3

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37818 said:
Without the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; John 16:8-10) you could not of made such a choice. (Romans 3:11)
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God makes the choice available to ALL. (2 Peter 3:9)
 
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