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How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

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1689Dave

1689Dave

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MB said:
I don't find any proof text here just your ideas. Scripture disagrees with Calvinism ideas.
Belief in Christ and what He did for us all is what saves.
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Man is not made to believe. or given faith, Faith comes by hearing
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
MB
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The proof is in the word definitions preach (= proclaim) as opposed to "offering" salvation which is foreign to the gospels.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Abraham was justified, but had not been born again. Abraham did not go to heaven but into the upper compartment of Sheol when he had physically died. Hebrews 11:39-40.
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Abraham was born again because faith/faithfulness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
robycop3 said:
I believe our exercise of free will is pretty obvious. I choose to not deliberately sin thru my own choice; I choose to believe Jesus has saved me from my well-deserved penalty for my sins. No one else chose for me.
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Without the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; John 16:8-10) you could not of made such a choice. (Romans 3:11)
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Abraham was born again because faith/faithfulness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
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The Holy Spirit was not generally given until after Christ's finished work, and according to His promise (John 14:16-17; John 16:7-11; Acts 1:8).
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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Five pages and I still haven't been shown how free will destroys the gospel. By his own admission the OP said that people that hear the gospel presented as a choice are born again and are saved. The gospel is still here so....how is free will destroying the gospel?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Mikey said:
No.
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So am I to understand that you do not believe the gospel of grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone? Ephesians 2:8-9. And/or you do not accept the gospel of John which fails to mention this repentance at all following faith? John 6:47, ". . . He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. . . ." Etc.

And you fail to provide one passage which explicitly states in any way, "believe and repent" in order to be saved.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Five pages and I still haven't been shown how free will destroys the gospel. By his own admission the OP said that people that hear the gospel presented as a choice are born again and are saved. The gospel is still here so....how is free will destroying the gospel?
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Just to note: The term "free will" is an interpretation of the fact that God made man to be a self willed being. The issues is really about man's self will as opposed to God's will (Matthew 7:21)

So I would argue man's "free will" does not destroy the gospel of grace. And furthermore "free will" has no place in the gospel of grace. The problem being the reason men do not believe is "free will." Men must willing to choose God's will over their own will.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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1689Dave said:
That was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, not the new birth.
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This is too easy...

Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dave Gilbert said:
( RevMitchell said, "Get ready for the goal posts to be moved or defintions to be changed. It is the calvie way." )

A question if I may, good sir.

Why do you appear to mock this subject ( and other people on this forum who do not see things the way you do ) so much?
If you do not understand it, that is fine, in my estimation.:)

But to call someone a "Calvie" and then to mark them with disdain?
I assure you, I will never do the same to you.
If you want to reply to the teachings that I believe, then please do so with God's word.
If not, then don't.
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First, it appears you do not understand what mocking is. Second, I have been on this board for a long time. My posts are based off of years of experience. Third, it is best to not respond to posts that in no way reflect your position. Lastly, you are a newbie, hang out for a while and get to know folks before commenting as you have. You do not know everyone's experiences here.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
That was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, not the new birth.
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Baptists are divided over this. John R Rice made that distinction too, so that places you in good company.

In Acts 10:45 Gentiles received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47). See also John 7:39. Also note Peter refers to this as the baptism in the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16; Acts 1:4-5; Matthew 3:11-12; John 14:16-17; John 16:7-11). Nowhere does the holy scripture make any distinction between receiving the Holy Spirit and being in the Holy Spirit baptized. Nowhere. (Romans 8:9; Romans 8:16; 1 John 5:12.)
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
This is too easy...

Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
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All believers have the Holy Spirit since Pentecost.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Five pages and I still haven't been shown how free will destroys the gospel. By his own admission the OP said that people that hear the gospel presented as a choice are born again and are saved. The gospel is still here so....how is free will destroying the gospel?
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Preaching the gospel is vastly different from offering salvation.
 
robycop3

robycop3

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Site Supporter
37818 said:
". . . But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . . ." -- Romans 10:16-18.
". . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. . . ." -- Psalms 19:4. Speaking of the natural revelation by which all men have some kind of faith.
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Well, then how could faith have come to those God hadn't directly spoken to? (Besides those who witnessed miracles)
 
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