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How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    We are never going to agree that faith is a gift. All you have said thus far is pinned on that one doctrine you hold to.
     
    #21 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, well, you can say that until the second coming. Nowhere in scripture is it stated that belief is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

    I think what you meant to say is, "faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit." That is another on of your mantras you repeatedly inflict on this board and another one that is not borne out in scripture. Any honest interpretation of Galatians 5:22 knows the word is 'faithfulness' and not faith.
     
    #22 InTheLight, Jul 16, 2019
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  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;” Ephesians 2:8 (NASB95)
     
    #23 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,” Galatians 5:22 (NASB95)
     
    #24 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
  5. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    To me, any "offer" of the Gospel that involves man making a decision, is speaking to fallen pride, fallen "what's in it for me", etc.

    Preaching Christ crucified and "letting the chips fall where they may", is relying on God to do His work through the Spirit, and not relying on man's will to decide who is saved and who is not.

    No matter how one slices it, there's no merit in God giving a gift to someone who is not expecting it.
    There is merit in God rewarding someone who can gain it by "properly accepting it."

    With that said, I will drop this line of address, because it is obvious that you and I see the Gospel very, very differently.:(
    Nothing I've said, posted or otherwise attempted to convince you of, has made any difference in your thinking, from my perspective.
    I can see that.
    I can also see that when I post scriptures, you and I don't even see the words the same way.

    With that said, I can see that we will never agree on how salvation "works", because you appear to emphasize the parts you see, while my emphasis is entirely different, in many cases.

    In the end, it is fully within your right to teach and preach what you wish before God...
    But I cannot be party to something that reduces His message to His children, as something akin to a market deal.:Sick
     
    #25 Dave G, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;” Ephesians 2:8 (NASB95)
     
    #26 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    all the dots connect to grace.
     
    #27 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Simply receiving that which is offered is not a pride issue.
     
    #28 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Great! That does not make that verse say faith is the gift.
     
    #29 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is works and you are the savior if salvation depends on it.
     
    #30 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
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  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is part of the gift.
     
    #31 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
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  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No it is not. receiving the gift offered is not meritorious.
     
    #32 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But you remain lost if you do not use it to save yourself.
     
    #33 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
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  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No, no salvation (grace) is the gift. The gift is given through faith. Faith is not the gift.
     
    #34 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Use it? What does that mean?
     
    #35 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    No salvation apart from faith = it is salvation.
     
    #36 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
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  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The OP points out that the gospel becomes law and grace becomes works if we do something to bring about salvation.
     
    #37 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
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  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    One does not lead to the other. Illogical. Salvation is redemption. Salvation is not the process that gets you redeemed.
     
    #38 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    And the op is wrong and unsubstantiated.
     
    #39 Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2019
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is fully substantiated.
     
    #40 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019
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