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How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Rockson said:
You said man DID have FREE WILL prior to being saved. Than you switched that and said man's will isn't FREE until being saved. Sorry Dave but you need to have accountability for the things you say and not always trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat to divert attention away from your inconsistencies .
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Free will of the sinful flesh is free only to sin. It's always self serving and hates the true Christ, preferring idols. Free will of the Spirit happens after the New Birth and is not the same.
 
Rockson

Rockson

Active Member
1689Dave said:
Free will of the sinful flesh is free only to sin. It's always self serving and hates the true Christ, preferring idols. Free will of the Spirit happens after the New Birth and is not the same.
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Well ladies and gentlemen. I guess the question that needs to be asked is can you buy into a concept that you have to free wills. One that isn't free and the other which is and yet they BOTH ARE free will. I don't mean to be unkind but do you find this emoticon comes to mind? Confused

So seeing we haven't seen as yet any other Calvinists seek to correct him I'd suggest that might reveal plainly the inconsistencies of their whole way of thinking. Readers you can be the judge.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
1. You are not God. You do not know if the Phillipian jailer was already a believer when he asked Paul for instructions. Furthermore, if he were already a believer, why would Paul say to him, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." This is yet another example of the Calvinist trying to change and contort the scripture to fit into their tortured theology.

2. You are not a mind reader. You have no way of knowing what was on the Phillipian jailer's mind. You cannot glibly say, "So the jailer had eternal life and was a believer before he asked Paul for instructions."

3. Humans cannot change the nature of the Gospel into a law via their free will or via anything.

4. John is quite clear that belief is necessary for salvation. Salvation is not proof of belief. Salvation is a result of belief.

These things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:31
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Belief is a fruit of the Holy Spirit too[/QUOTE]

Knowing what was on the jailers mind is shown by his question of how to be saved. Yes Faith is also a gift and a fruit how ever we need faith in order to be saved. Unless you think you can be saved with out it.
MB
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Belief is a fruit of the Holy Spirit too
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Knowing what was on the jailers mind is shown by his question of how to be saved. Yes Faith is also a gift and a fruit how ever we need faith in order to be saved. Unless you think you can be saved with out it.
MB[/QUOTE]
He was saved according to Jesus, (he believed) or he would not have asked Paul for directions. Paul assured him that those who believe in Jesus are saved.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Rockson said:
Well ladies and gentlemen. I guess the question that needs to be asked is can you buy into a concept that you have to free wills. One that isn't free and the other which is and yet they BOTH ARE free will. I don't mean to be unkind but do you find this emoticon comes to mind? Confused

So seeing we haven't seen as yet any other Calvinists seek to correct him I'd suggest that might reveal plainly the inconsistencies of their whole way of thinking. Readers you can be the judge.
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We are not saved by the will of the flesh.

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:12–13 (NASB95)
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
He was saved according to Jesus, (he believed) or he would not have asked Paul for directions. Paul assured him that those who believe in Jesus are saved.
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You are saying the Phillipian jailer was already a believer. Because he was a believer he asked Paul how to be saved.

The flip side of your assertion is that the jailer would NOT have asked Paul how to be saved if he was an unbeliever.

How does this make sense?

It sounds like you are saying Paul was telling the jailer, "Hey, you're already a believer. You are saved. Chill."
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
You are saying the Phillipian jailer was already a believer. Because he was a believer he asked Paul how to be saved.

The flip side of your assertion is that the jailer would NOT have asked Paul how to be saved if he was an unbeliever.

How does this make sense?

It sounds like you are saying Paul was telling the jailer, "Hey, you're already a believer. You are saved. Chill."
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Would he ask if he didn't believe?
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Knowing what was on the jailers mind is shown by his question of how to be saved. Yes Faith is also a gift and a fruit how ever we need faith in order to be saved. Unless you think you can be saved with out it.
MB
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He was saved according to Jesus, (he believed) or he would not have asked Paul for directions. Paul assured him that those who believe in Jesus are saved.[/QUOTE]
No one ask how to be saved after they have already experienced being born again. Simply because they know how. You are trying to twist scripture to make it fit your doctrine. The jailer asked because He wanted to be saved. Jesus didn't make any comments at the time because He was at the right hand of the Father. Your twisted understanding of scripture is finding you out.
MB
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
MB said:
He was saved according to Jesus, (he believed) or he would not have asked Paul for directions. Paul assured him that those who believe in Jesus are saved.
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No one ask how to be saved after they have already experienced being born again. Simply because they know how. You are trying to twist scripture to make it fit your doctrine. The jailer asked because He wanted to be saved. Jesus didn't make any comments at the time because He was at the right hand of the Father. Your twisted understanding of scripture is finding you out.
MB[/QUOTE]

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” John 3:16 (NASB95)
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
Do you need to choose to believe in what you experience? And so it is with the New Birth.
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I see. So, in John 3 Nicodemus was already born again, but he asked Jesus, simply for late night conversational reasons, "How can a man be born when he is old?" and "How can these things be?"
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
Because he asked Paul for instruction, a normal thing to do if you want to know more about something you believe is true.
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Paul and Silas are imprisoned because they cast a demon out of a young woman who had said, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” The magistrates arrest them, beat them bloody and threw them naked into an inner prison cell put them in shackles and command the jailer to keep watch over them.

Paul and Silas proceed to sing hymns to God. Suddenly an earthquake shakes the prison, the shackles fall off all the prisoners. The jailer, fearing he will be executed because the prisoners we was supposed to be securing have surely escaped, draws his sword and is about to kill himself. Paul yells out, "Do yourself no harm, we're all here!" Whereupon the jailer asks Paul and Silas, "What must I do to be saved?"

31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

Here we see that the jailer and his household were not believers until after they had heard the gospel preached to them.

So why do you think the jailer was already a believer when the scripture clearly says he was not?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Paul and Silas are imprisoned because they cast a demon out of a young woman who had said, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” The magistrates arrest them, beat them bloody and threw them naked into an inner prison cell put them in shackles and command the jailer to keep watch over them.

Paul and Silas proceed to sing hymns to God. Suddenly an earthquake shakes the prison, the shackles fall off all the prisoners. The jailer, fearing he will be executed because the prisoners we was supposed to be securing have surely escaped, draws his sword and is about to kill himself. Paul yells out, "Do yourself no harm, we're all here!" Whereupon the jailer asks Paul and Silas, "What must I do to be saved?"

31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

Here we see that the jailer and his household were not believers until after they had heard the gospel preached to them.

So why do you think the jailer was already a believer when the scripture clearly says he was not?
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So the Jailer heard the gospel through Paul and Silas and their hymns.
 
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