Again I would restates my question. Since when do we give credit to the one who receives a gift for also giving it to themselves because they acted on the offer and to measure to receive it?
Mark,
I'd like to take one more stab at this, if only to establish where I think you may be having difficulty in understanding where salvation comes from, and how it is a gift, biblically.
For the record, I didn't learn this from Augustine, John Calvin, or anyone else...I learned it from reading the Bible.
The question addressed in other threads was, essentially,
"Since when is the accepting of a gift, part of the gift giving?", or, to quote you directly here:
Where Does Faith Come From II, in post# 34,
"Since when does the reception of the gift also considered part of the giving." (?)
I believe that I've answered this quite thoroughly, even though you do not agree with my definition of a gift.
To me, ( not you you, it seems ), there's a
big difference between
passively receiving a gift, and
actively "receiving" a gift.
The difference is, one person is caught completely by surprise and receives it with joy...because they didn't know they had it coming. <---- Passive. Notice the word, "receive"...."Receive Him" ( John 1:11-12 )
The other sees a person next to them, or heard about that gift being received, and then says to themselves, "I want some of that! How do I get it?" <---- Active. Notice the word, "get", as in "gain"...."get saved".
An analogy of this would be:
On my birthday, my Dad gives me a shiny new bicycle...in the days leading up to my birthday, he hides it so well, that I never knew he had it for me. On the set day, he presents it to me completely "out of the blue", and
it's the bike I've always wanted.
What can be said about this?
1) I had no idea he was going to give it to me.
2) When he gave it to me, it was already mine... whether or not I wanted it.
From here on out, if I don't like it, it's irrelevant...it's mine to do with as I please.
I'm stuck with it, because Dad is not going to take it back to the store...but since I
like it, there's no way I'd ever take it back or
let him take it back to the store.
This is true gift-giving, and this is biblical salvation.
I could give example after example of this "out of the blue" type of thing happening throughout Scripture, with regard to God's favor...and I believe that I already have.
God's favor is bestowed upon someone without their realizing it ( Romans 10:20 ).
Contrast the above with this analogy:
On my birthday, my Dad buys me a shiny new bicycle, stores it away and then on the set day, pulls it out, sets it up in the front yard, and proceeds to tell me that if I can walk up, get on the bicycle and ride it, it's mine.
What just happened?
1) My Dad just put a
condition on taking possession of the bicycle, in front of me. He then
credits we with ownership, IF I do what he demands that I do.
2) If I failed to meet his conditions, no matter how much I wanted the bicycle, it would never be mine.
This is ( apparently ) your idea of how gift giving works, and is not biblical salvation.
I could give example after example after example of how this is works, because it begins with the premise that, what is being given, is being "offered", with strings attached.
To me, you see the "string" as being faith...or belief.
Something a man has to do, in order to "receive" the "gift".
