How Halloweenistic are you?

[GrannyGumbo]

Thank-you gekko - (I don't celebrate all those things you listed either). Last Friday evening we stood with our signs outside the perimeters of the downtown Halloween-bash, complete with hanging dummys, scarecrows, witches, ghosts, goblins, etc. Everyone was allowed inside there, but Liberty Baptist Church. I still managed to pass out several hundred tracts.

My pastor asked these questions of every single mama and/or daddy that came near: "Can you justify your participation in Halloween using the Bible? Can you excuse the dressing of your daughter in a witch costume in light of Exodus 22:18? Can you give reason, in spite of Deuteronomy 18:10-12, why you allowed your son to have a grim-reaper or skeleton costume? As you stand before the Holy God in judgment for your conduct, your only allowed defence will be the Scriptures". (John 12:48 KJB)

Not one single man or woman dared to defend themselves from the Word of God last Friday evening. Most were plain rude to us...or worse.

 

[gekko]

mmhmm, God did have the Jews celebrate all sorts of feasts... that were laid out in the old testament. besides, i am not a Jew. although my family is checking into it. that's besides the point.

as a matter of fact, having no holiday's has been most exhillerating. i've lived with it my whole life. you've lived with them, so of course you would say it would be boring. family traditions? bah! bible says we have no need to follow the "traditions of men" (i can't remember where it says it. does somebody know?) hmm... so no, i do tradition's as much as i do religion. (oooh, some of you may gasp at that! oh no! uh, religion is manmade. i've got a relationship with Jesus. i don't need organized religion. i've got God, His Word, and His Spirit. i hate religion. that's a whole other topic on it's own.)

Gumbo, what a great idea. i never thought of handing out tracts on halloween. we usually just shut off out lights, or just went to my grandparents apartments for halloween. hmm... makes me think more for next year. thank you. now i just gotta find some tracts.

who cares if you buy halloween candy? candy is candy is candy. same pile different dirt, as i've said before(maybe in a different topic...) looks different. whatever. go ahead and buy it. i ain't gon' judge you for it. although, for taking part in halloween, i will judge. (oh, but we aren't supposed to judge. you might say... hmm... then why does it say in the new testament that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2tim.3:16-17
we as christians are to only judge according to what the bible states as fact. "for reproof, for correction..."

a question i raise is: why would us christians want to take part in a holiday that the world is taking part in?

have a gooder. God Bless.
gekko.

p.s. i also do not celebrate the holidays just because my parents don't. no, i've looked into all of them. i know what not to get into when praising God with my life.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Not one single man or woman dared to defend themselves from the Word of God last Friday evening. Most were plain rude to us...or worse.

But of course, your pastor's rudeness doesn't count.

 

[Bro. James]

The principle is simple: God is Spirit. They that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.(the implication is: no ghosts and goblins are allowed) Implication is the wrong word--"thus saith the Lord is the right phrase".

Anything else is worship in the flesh. God does not accept worship in the flesh. See Cain and Abel and their sacrifices.

We all have sin at our doors(trick or treat)--and in our tents.

What does God have to do with our depravity?

"Behold, the Lamb of God..."

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by gekko:
family traditions? bah! bible says we have no need to follow the "traditions of men" (i can't remember where it says it. does somebody know?)

Well obviously since you do celebrate birthdays you do follow the traditions of men. There is nothing biblical about celebrating birthdays.

There is nothing inherently bad about traditions, and in fact there's a lot good about them.

That verse you took out of context above is Mark 7:7 and is referring to the Pharasees. If you read the chapter Jesus condemns their hypocrisy, not the mere fact that they had traditions.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by gekko:
a question i raise is: why would us christians want to take part in a holiday that the world is taking part in?

So you are against Thanksgiving and Memorial Day?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Can any of you readers support Helloween with Scripture?

That sounds really funny coming from a KJVOist. Not to mention hypocritical.

I can find no more support than I can find support for Labor Day, my big screen tv, or my choice in brand of toilet paper.

God is not interested in your opinion or personal thinking or preferences.

Apparantly, you feel God has entrusted you alone to decide this for us.

No thanks, I'll stick to my own personal discernment over yours. It's much more reliable to me.

Scripture and that alone, stands before God.

Again, the hypicrisy of that statement coming from a KJVOist is incredibly amusing.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Artimaeus:
I can't believe I'm the only one who bought Halloween themed candy.

You're not the only one. I have a bit left over. Would you like some? Luv dem candycorns ... woohoo!!!

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by gekko:
a question i raise is: why would us christians want to take part in a holiday that the world is taking part in?

Do you work on national holidays?

 

[Alcott]

I believe that all hollidays and celebrations are either patriotic,...or religious, i.e. Easter or Christmas.

Well, that's about as good a way as any to usher in the "Christmas is evil" topic. We're past 'halloween,' no one gets their jollies from debating 'thanksgiving' too much, so now the target will be christmas.

If a Christian reads the Bible and to the best of his understanding believes it cannot be justified to take any part in these "celebrations," then obviously that person should not do it.

But there is a word of caution in order, and example is probably the best way to communicate it. When we see people doing things non-Biblical-- and especially if in our understanding it is anti-Biblical-- are we so convinced of our own righteousness that we claim the right to stamp the evil out? I'm specifically referring to a town called Salem and the 19 people they executed for witchcraft. A wave of this self=righteous intensity began because a group of girls were interested in slave woman's stories, and their reactions were either unreasonable fear and accusations, or perhaps they saw an avenue of getting back at some of the stern, oppressive adults among them. And defending them against the charges of being controlled by Satan resulted in the same accusation against the defenders. But the long and short of it is: if those "witches" didn't really turn into black cats or make the village's cows stop giving milk or they didn't give birth to children with horns, then who was Satan really working through? The accused didn't murder anybody, but accusers did.

 

[gekko]

hmm... did i ever say that i do not do traditions? i don't believe i did. we have no need for traditions, sure doesn't help me grow in my faith. unless i'm out on the streets or someplace bein' part of the great commish.

Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

i live in canada. as i think i've said before. up here, 'thanksgiving' isn't what you americans are all about down there for 'thanksgiving'. we never had puritans, or anything like that sort. again, i never said i don't take part any traditions. ones that are against God, i will not take part in. i personally like to call it "kill the turkey weekend." just a more fun way of putting it i guess. lol. and i don't think i even know what memorial day is. we are to be IN the world but not OF the world.

Johnv. wow. you amaze me. what is so hypocritical about asking whether or not one can support halloween with scripture? or 'helloween' as gumbo put it? i'm a "KJVOist" as you say. huh? could that be classified as an insult, saying that "KJVOist's" are too legalistic? anyways. i don't understand what you mean how that is hypocritical. are we supposed to stick to OUR personal discernment? or are we to let the Holy Spirit help us discern?

"scripture and that alone, stands before God."
i agree with that to the extent that i know that everyone will be standing before God in the judgement day. all scripture is God breathed. so stand on it. 'cuz it's a commandment from God. (as a side question, how many commandments are in the new testament alone?) again Johnv. i don't see any hypocrisy in that statement.

what is the definition of a national holiday? i will state that i've only had two jobs in my lifetime. i am only 18 years old.

"if a Christian reads the Bible and to the best of his understanding believes it cannot be justified to take any part in these "celebrations," then obviously that person should not do it." - Alcott

are we ourselves supposed to try to understand the bible? hmm... that one makes me think.

have a gooder. God Bless.
gekko.

 

[gekko]

Mike McK.

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Not one single man or woman dared to defend themselves from the Word of God last Friday evening. Most were plain rude to us...or worse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But of course, your pastor's rudeness doesn't count. "

what is so rude about sharing God's word?

 

[just-want-peace]

Seems to be an awful lot of people trying to impose their standards on others here (as is so common on this Christian board).

I used to celebrate Halloween, and had no compunctions about it. Then sometime ago I began to sense that this is something I just shouldn't be doing.

I now have absolutely no participation in the event, and am extremely happy when it's over.

However this is me, and I sense no obligation to try to make any of you conform to my standards.

If God decides that YOU should bypass this "holiday" He certainly doesn't need me to confront you about it, as He is perfectly capable of getting His point across His way in His time. If I am to be a part of the change, most likely it will be from someone reading my "testimony" and the H.S. using some part of it to convict.

The following scripture sums it up pretty well, with the 23rd verse being the capper!


Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:2 For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, another eats vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Do not let him who eats despise him who does not eat; and do not let him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has received him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you that judges another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
Rom 14:8 For both if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore both if we live, and if we die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For this Christ both died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or also why do you despise your brother? For all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give account concerning himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Then let us not judge one another any more, but rather judge this, not to put a stumbling-block or an offense toward his brother.
Rom 14:14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing by itself is common; except to him who esteems anything to be common, it is common.
Rom 14:15 But if your brother is grieved with your food, you no longer walk according to love. Do not with your food destroy him for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Then do not let your good be spoken evil of,
Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 For he who serves Christ in these things is well-pleasing to God, and approved by men.
Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue the things of peace, and the things for building up one another.
Rom 14:20 Do not undo the work of God for food. Truly, all things indeed are clean, but it is bad to the man eating because of a stumbling-block.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
Rom 14:23 But, the one doubting, if he eats, he has been condemned, because it is not of faith; and all that is not of faith is sin.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by gekko:
hmm... did i ever say that i do not do traditions? i don't believe i did.

You said "a question i raise is: why would us christians want to take part in a holiday that the world is taking part in?". My point is that the world takes part in things like Thanksgiving and Memorial Day (the equivalent to Canadian Rememberance Day). My question was not about partaking of traditions, but partaking of traditions in which the world also participates. If you choose to avoid specific traditions for whatever reason you choose, that's fine - but saying that we shouldn't participate in something just because the world participates in it is taking it too far (and the wrong reason), that's all.

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by gekko:
[QB] hmm... did i ever say that i do not do traditions? i don't believe i did. we have no need for traditions, sure doesn't help me grow in my faith. unless i'm out on the streets or someplace bein' part of the great commish.

You said so you didn't have any traditions right here:

family traditions? bah! bible says we have no need to follow the "traditions of men" (i can't remember where it says it. does somebody know?) hmm... so no, i do tradition's as much as i do religion

We've already established that you do follow the traditions of men in celebrating birthdays. You really have no family traditions at all? You don't mark any occasions besides birthdays with any type of celebration? You don't have a certain time set aside each year or so to have a family reunion? Your parents don't do something special to celebrate straight A's like going out for ice cream?

A tradition can be any number of things and can certainly trigger spiritual growth. A family could have a week set aside in the summer for memorizing Bible verses and studying the Bible. Or perhaps on May Day the kids can put together wildflower bouquets and hang them on the neighbor's doors with a Bible verse inside.

and i don't think i even know what memorial day is. we are to be IN the world but not OF the world.

In an American teenager I wouldn't call ignorance of Memorial Day a virtue. In a Canadian teenager I can excuse it. I don't think commemorating the sacrifice of those who served in the military is worldly.

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Not one single man or woman dared to defend themselves from the Word of God last Friday evening. Most were plain rude to us...or worse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But of course, your pastor's rudeness doesn't count. "

what is so rude about sharing God's word?

It's not the sharing it, it's the manner in which it is shared!

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by gekko:
what is so rude about sharing God's word?

Nothing is rude about sharing God's word unless it's done rudely. From what she describes, it was very rude and her pastor was pretty obnoxious.

 

[gekko]

you people don't know how to read do you. i said "bible says we have no need to follow the traditions of men..." where in there does it say that i don't do traditions? i can't find it anywhere. we have no need to follow traditions, therefore we can serve God with or without them. i choose not to follow the vast majority of them. takes up too much time i say. i agree fully with Just-want-peace. thanks j.w.c. i'm not a big fan of traditions. that sure is a fact. but oh well. so i do birthdays. and what do i even do on birthdays? i just chillax with some homey's. that's 'bout it. like i do everyday. i don't think commemorating passed soldiers is worldy either, it's what people do, i guess you could say it's patriotic. guess you could say i'm not patriotic to the country i live in i guess. doesn't matter to me if you do those things, doesn't matter to me if you do halloween, or christmas, or easter or any of those things. i'm just letting you know that everything should be checked out with the word of God. if we end up doing those things, so be it. as long as you aren't putting God in the 'time-out' box so that you can do those things. that's what i'm learning. how not to push God away when i'm doing anything in my life.

just-want-peace. i think you hit the perverbial nail on the head. we've gotta let the Holy Spirit help us discern what is righteous and what is not.

yah sure me an' the unit love to go for chinese food for special occasions. i wouldn't call that a tradition. it's just something we like to do for special occasions. yah i may go for coffee on friday nights. is that a tradition? i don't know. what is the definition of a tradition? it's just something i like doing. may happen one week, may not the rest of the month. so what. (am i confusing some of you?) we don't need all those traditions. and no, it's not boring without them.

anyways. i think that's all i can grasp myself right now. :S

i really hope it makes sense and that i am not contradicting myself. if i cam contradicting myself, please point it out, i'll be happy to fix it. 'cuz i hate contradicting myself. ack! so God Bless.

gekko.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by gekko:
Johnv. wow. you amaze me. what is so hypocritical about asking whether or not one can support halloween with scripture? or 'helloween' as gumbo put it?

Because GG is a die hard KJVOist, and KJVOism is not supported by scripture. For KJVOists to condemn something because it's not supported by scripture, while themselves adhering to a doctrine that's not supported by scripture, is not only the model of hypicrisy, it's completely laughable.

as a side question, how many commandments are in the new testament alone?) again Johnv.

Not sure what that has to do with it, unless you're one of these folks who thinks that the only parts of the OT that are valid are parts mentioned in the NT.

what is the definition of a national holiday?

A day of observation by the federal government, in which federal employees are given leave with pay. THose holidays are:

• New Year's Day [Jan. 1]
• Martin Luther King Day [3rd monday in Jan]
• Inauguration Day [after U.S. presidential election, held every 4 years]
• Presidents Day [3rd monday in Feb]
• Memorial Day (observed) [last monday in May]
• Independence Day [July 4]
• Labor Day [1st monday in Sept]
• Columbus Day (observed) [2nd monday in Oct]
• Veterans' Day [Nov. 11]
• Thanksgiving Day [4th thursday in Nov]
• Christmas Day [Dec. 25]

"if a Christian reads the Bible and to the best of his understanding believes it cannot be justified to take any part in these "celebrations," then obviously that person should not do it." - Alcott

Note that Alcott does not say "if a Christian reads the Bible and to the best of his understanding believes it cannot be justified to take any part in these 'celebrations,' then that person should make every effort to forbid others to do it." Even Paul says "Let each be convinced in his own mind". Paul does not say to go around convincing the minds of others.

 

[EaglewingIS4031]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EaglewingIS4031:
[qb]I believe that all hollidays and celebrations are either patriotic, i.e Memorial Day, Independence Day, or religious, i.e. Easter or Christmas.

That pretty much discounts Labor Day, then. I guess we should also give up Mother's Day, Father's Day, and, most notably, Groundhog Day!!!</font>[/QUOTE]Labor day is a patriotic holliday we celebrate the fruits of our labors as hard working Americans, And we enjoy the blessings God has bestowed on us.

Mother's Day, and Father's Day are religious Holidays they are on Sundays. We thank God that we have our parents on these days. Every church I have been a part of has has had some recogintion of mothers and fathers on these days respectively. Remember the 5th Commandment!

Halloween, Mardi Gras, Hannukuh, and Ramadan are religious hollidays too, just not my religion!

BTW, I love to celebrate Groundhog´s Day! I do it with all the traditional Pomp and Circumstance that goes along with it. On Febuary 1st, a.k.a. Groundhog´s Eve, I tuck my daughter in bed as she falls asleep with the eager anticipation of a visit from the Great Grand Groundhog. Because ¨Tripple G¨ , as he has come to be affectionaly called over the years, will bring lot´s of toys and candy. The next morning, my family and I eat our hard boiled groundhog eggs under the groundhog tree as we exchange our Groundhog´s Day presents. Then we dig Groundhog tunnels over the hills and though the woods to Grandma´s house we go. As we listen to 24 hours of traditional Groundhog´s day music played on the local radio station. Oh! The aroma! why, Grandma has had a groundhog baking in the oven since early in the morning, and one marinating in the refregirator for me to BBQ outside on the Grill. My wife, my siblings and my inlaws all bring over casoroles, dressing and all the other traditional Groundhog´s Day dishes and trimmings that make this holiday feast so special. During dinner Grandma brags about how she won the traditional groundhog pie baking contest several years ago, at our town's groundhog fair and carnaval. Then she complains about how Gertrude Going's groundhog pie got the blue ribbon the following year, and she had only a red ribbon. Politics! Politics! it's all rigged! she exclaims. Then she tells us that is why she quit entering the contest. We all asuure her that her groundhog pie is by far the best and it deserves a blue ribbon. Grandpa brags about his Groundhog light display on the house and then gives away his top secret plan to one up Mr. Granger, who lives 3 doors down, next year. Mr. Granger always seems to have the most elaberate Grondhog light dispalys in the whole neiborhood. After dinner, My brother makes a large batch of Homemade Ice-cream, his special secret recipe. The teen age Boys in the family go outside to have bottle rocket and fire-cracker wars, as Grandma and my wife holler out the window for them to be carefull with those fireworks. The men sit down in front of the TV with bellies full and debate with the women about weather or not we should change the channel from the Great Groundhog's Day Parade to the traditional Groundhog's day game between the Grand Praire "Golphers" and the Weaselville "Muskrats." Both teams are looking good this year! It's is going to be great game!
As evening aproaches we we all go to church where we participate in a special prayer service to thank the good Lord for the gift of Groundhogs and the the children's chior preform a skit and special Groundhog's Day Hymns. After church we load our cars and trucks with lawn chairs and coolers filled with soft drinks, and we go downtown to the town square to watch the fireworks launched from the barge in the river. As we we wait on the fire works my family and I pass out tracts that educate people on the true meaning of Groundhog's Day. After the magnificent fireworks dispaly we go home, as we wait in trafic we reflect on how great Groundhogs Day was this year and eagerly anticipate next year's celebration. YES! LOVE TO CEELEBRATE GROUNDHOG'S DAY!

P.S. the preceding was an example of sarcasm!

[ November 01, 2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: EaglewingIS4031 ]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by EaglewingIS4031:
Labor day is a patriotic holliday

Uhhh, no it's not. It's a federal holiday, but it's not a patriotic holiday.

Mother's Day, and Father's Day are religious Holidays they are on Sundays.

Are you serious? They're religious holidays? As a father, I'd love nothign more. Me sitting back while my kids fan me with palm branches and feed me grapes

If Halloween is on a Sunday, then it must be a religious holiday too. Come to think of it, my birthday last year was on a Sunday, so it must have been a religious holiday as well. What about Super Bowl Sunday? It's a relgious holiday in my house, but...