How Halloweenistic are you?

[gekko]

"Even Paul says "Let each be convinced in his own mind". Paul does not say to go around convincing the minds of others. " where is that verse? i can't seem to find it. i have a KJV. probably why it's different.

i don't know where i was going with the laws question. i just like random questions. that okay? by the way. there's 197 commandments in the N.T. <---- random fact of the day.

gosh! i forgot about mother's day and father's day! boy do i ever not celebrate those either! lol. no i'm serious. i don't. i'll honor my mom&dad everyday of the year. no need to set aside a day to celebrate my parents. just sounds weird saying that.

wow. i never knew you americans had so many holidays. :| we don't have that many. at least, well, i don't know, i havn't looked into it either so...

religious... what a word.

anyways. God Bless.
i'll keep trying to find that verse.

in the meantime. here's a verse:
acts 18:28

"28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. "

sure seems paul had some people convinced of something they never thought they would be convinced of....

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by gekko:
"Even Paul says "Let each be convinced in his own mind". Paul does not say to go around convincing the minds of others. " where is that verse? i can't seem to find it. i have a KJV. probably why it's different.

In the KJV, it's "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." (Romans 14:5). It correlates to Colossians 2: 16-17 where Paul says "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

i just like random questions.

You too, huh, so do... oh, look. Donuts.

i'll honor my mom&dad everyday of the year.

Very astute

 

[gekko]

"quote:
"i just like random questions."


You too, huh, so do... oh, look. Donuts."

what was that? that wasn't even a question.


so i guess in conclusion, romans 14 is saying we are to do all things giving thanks unto the Lord. so next year i'll dress up as a male-witch and go out in the streets giving thanks to God for the candy he's provided.

right. like i'll do that.

that verse in colossians. i like that verse. you set yourself up there Johnv. it does say "Let no man therefore judge you...." so when christians are using scripture "...for rebuke, for correction..." is it the flesh that is judging the person? or is it the Holy Spirit judging?

 

[gekko]

i forgot to add. i will give thanks to God in everything i do. everything that He wants me to do.

 

[EaglewingIS4031]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EaglewingIS4031:
Labor day is a patriotic holliday

Uhhh, no it's not. It's a federal holiday, but it's not a patriotic holiday.

Mother's Day, and Father's Day are religious Holidays they are on Sundays.

Are you serious? They're religious holidays? As a father, I'd love nothign more. Me sitting back while my kids fan me with palm branches and feed me grapes

If Halloween is on a Sunday, then it must be a religious holiday too. Come to think of it, my birthday last year was on a Sunday, so it must have been a religious holiday as well. What about Super Bowl Sunday? It's a relgious holiday in my house, but... </font>[/QUOTE]If you read the entire post you would have known that I was not totaly serious!

Halloween is a religios holliday! Just not My religion! I said that already didn't I. I once had a friend who was heavily involved in Wicca, she claimed Halloween as the most important holliday on the calender. I tried to witness to her but eventually I had to dust my feet and move on!

Mothers Day, and Fathers Day are not religious because the are on Sundays. But they are on Sundays because they are religious. I use these days to thank God fo my parents, and for the last three years that I too have become a father. I give my parents Christian themed cards usally with some bible verse on it and a gift. Are you tring to claim that honoring your father and mother is a worldly thing to do? I find these days to be great time of spirtual refelection.

BTW I forgot to mention the Groundhog piñata in the Groundhog day celebration story!

Also: Toilet paper is Christ honoring because I thank the Lord that I dont have to use a corn cob or the the Sears & Roebuck Catelog, as was common practice before TP was invented. It is certainly not anti-Christian to use it.


For whoever is not against us is for us. Mark 9:40

Eaglewing!

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by gekko:
next year i'll dress up as a male-witch

What exactly does a male witch look like? The picture of the witch with green skin, warts, a pointed hat, and broomstick are all inventions of medieval era Christian folklore. In fact, the bulk of what we associate with Halloween is.

...is it the flesh that is judging the person? or is it the Holy Spirit judging?

There's no "rebuke" or "correction" needed on this topic, since no one here is compromising their faith, whether they choose to pass out candy or not.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Johnv -- You are using way too much logic here. Keep up the good work in defense of common sense.

At our church, we have a harvest-festival as an alternative to trick/treating. It is basically for the little ones - through elementary school. We have food, games, a dunk tank, bounce house, etc. The kids love it. The kids get to dress in costumes, just no scary ones. This past week we had over 200 children, in spite of the rain and the recent hurricane - and many homes still without power.

 

[TexasSky]

What find most interesting about some of what I read here is the inaccurate information that goes around.

Regarding: All holidays are patriotic or religious. Is a birthday celebration either one? Mother's Day? Father's Day? Bosses Day? Labor Day?

The fact is, a lot of Christian holidays were actually originally non-Christian celebrations. Minisionaries and Christians of historical times used those community celebrations as a stepping stone to witness to others for Christ. They were so successsful that they actually changed the holidays to Christian Holidays.

(The following information comes from a variety of websites and books. It is not all taken from one source, though the sources did all agree. History is funny that way.)

Easter was the Saxon's celebration of the return of spring with parties that honored the "goddess" Easter. Christian missionaries of the 2nd century tried to convert these Saxons to Christ, but for a Saxon not to participate in the celebrations of the season was tantamount to suicide. So the missionaries suggested that these new Christians celebrate in a Christian fashion. Since the Saxon holiday over lapped the Passover, Christians considered it the time of the resurrection of Christ. So they picked up symbols of it and began to use it spread the word of Christ. The traditional symbols of the rebirth of spring were kept, but the meaning altered to symoblize the resurrection of Christ.

Christmas used to change dates until Pope Julius I decided, in the 4th Century AD, that it should be used to "replace" the pagan rituals of "Winter Solstice" or "Return of the Sun." Before that time the Swedish people celebrated the winter solstice with animal and hung sacrifices. Christians worked for decades to change that, and to turn it into a celebration of the birth of Christ.

Halloween takes its name from "All Hollows Eve. November first , the night before "All Saints Day." It was a date that the Catholics used to honor all the fallen saints. People, being superstitious, thought that one day a year souls were allowed to come back and visit with their family and friends. (Yes, it is unbiblical, but it was what they believed.) People thought that November 1, was a "holy day" and that if ghosts were going to visit family it would be on the "holy" day when saints were honored. They called it "Hallowed Day" then "All Hallow's Day."

In Celtic Ireland, around the 5th Century B.C., October 31st was Samhain, (sow-en), the Celtic New Year. The Celtic's taught that on this day spirits who had died in the previous year tried to possess living bodies for the next year. Since they didn't believe in heaven, they considered that nonsense their "after life." The Celtic tradition was to put out fires, make homes cold and undesireable. They also tried to frighten spirits away.

Eventually the two celebrations "merged" with people dropping the Celtic beliefs, in favor of "dressing up for fun."

Trick or Treating came into existence in the 9th century. It comes from Europe. The custom was that on "All Soul's Day" (November 2), the early Christians went "souling." This required walking from village to village begging for "soul cakes." Soul cakes are made out of square bread with currants. The more soul cakes the beggars received, the more prayers they would promise to say for the dead relatives of the donors. In that day and age many thought souls remained in limbo after death, and that prayers would free them from limbo to move onto heaven.

Now - granted "souling" and "costuming" are very unbiblical. The fact remains though, that CHRISTIANS started All Hollow's Eve and CHRISTIANS started trick or treating.

 

[TexasSky]

Gekko,

Whether it is in Canada or the USA, the idea of Thanksgiving is meant to be a time when you stop, consider what you are thankful for, and thank God for it.

 

[gekko]

hello texas.

i don't need a specific day where i am to think on what i'm thankful for, and thank God for it. i try my best to do that everyday. that's how life goes. i'd rather do it everyday, then pick a day.

you get my meanin'?
gekko.

 

[gekko]

hmm... i got this from the History Channel Webpage. seems there's more than just christian roots in halloween eh? (it's the history channel, i think they know their stuff where things came from...)


Ancient Origins
Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in).

The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.

To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities.


During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. When the celebration was over, they re-lit their hearth fires, which they had extinguished earlier that evening, from the sacred bonfire to help protect them during the coming winter.

By A.D. 43, Romans had conquered the majority of Celtic territory. In the course of the four hundred years that they ruled the Celtic lands, two festivals of Roman origin were combined with the traditional Celtic celebration of Samhain.

The first was Feralia, a day in late October when the Romans traditionally commemorated the passing of the dead. The second was a day to honor Pomona, the Roman goddess of fruit and trees. The symbol of Pomona is the apple and the incorporation of this celebration into Samhain probably explains the tradition of "bobbing" for apples that is practiced today on Halloween.

By the 800s, the influence of Christianity had spread into Celtic lands. In the seventh century, Pope Boniface IV designated November 1 All Saints' Day, a time to honor saints and martyrs. It is widely believed today that the pope was attempting to replace the Celtic festival of the dead with a related, but church-sanctioned holiday. The celebration was also called All-hallows or All-hallowmas (from Middle English Alholowmesse meaning All Saints' Day) and the night before it, the night of Samhain, began to be called All-hallows Eve and, eventually, Halloween. Even later, in A.D. 1000, the church would make November 2 All Souls' Day, a day to honor the dead. It was celebrated similarly to Samhain, with big bonfires, parades, and dressing up in costumes as saints, angels, and devils. Together, the three celebrations, the eve of All Saints', All Saints', and All Souls', were called Hallowmas.

yah, sure there's "christian" roots. it's more catholic then anything.

gekko.

 

[Pete]

I would have been out the front yelling at kids "GET LOST! THIS IS AUSTRALIA NOT AMERICA!!" but just couldn't be bothered on the night

 

[gekko]

now with easter? i hate the name. although it is mentioned once in the KJV. but as a holiday that king herod celebrated. not one that the disciples or "christians" (which they were not called that till acts)

"Easter" tract (tract showing what is wrong with easter)--essentially against easter

Origin of Easter (written by christians)--essentially for easter

these are two different views on easter. i prefer the first. although you may say there are no references. i still agree with it. we sure ain't supposed to be equally yoked with the world.

gekko.

 

[Gib]

We don't participate in halloween. To keep trick or treaters from knocking on the door I wear a hockey mask and chase the kids of my property with a chainsaw.

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by FriendofSpurgeon:
At our church, we have a harvest-festival as an alternative to trick/treating. It is basically for the little ones - through elementary school. We have food, games, a dunk tank, bounce house, etc. The kids love it. The kids get to dress in costumes, just no scary ones.

Many churches, including mine, do something like this. I think a legitimate question is in order, though without any judgment about the setup. Isn't doing this essentially the same thing that developed into "halloween" in the first place? Missionaries saw they could not keep the new converts from all thier ancient traditions, especially annual festivals which mark changes in seasons-- e.g., end of harvest, winter soltice ['return of the sun'], spring equinox. So they simply tried to Christianize these things, keeping much of the old decor and events. Since samrhain marked the end of the harvest, with the somewhat subtle theme of "life and light now become darkness and death," is the modern church activity of "harvest festivals"-- something few people, especially kids in America today, have no relation to-- nothing but a reincarnatin of the Dark Age/Medieval Catholic idea of putting a Christian topping on it, while keeping some of the "fun" and styles of the contemporary celebration? [that might be longest run-on sentence I have written]

Note that change in human history always has involved ceremony, and ceremony is almost always accompanied by festival. Although few people elope today [they just "shack up" instead], most familes would still be frustrated if a young couple did that and left them out of their chance to be part of a ceremony followed by festitivities.

Whether the Bible does not allow for "times and seasons" changes and their aknowledgments with festivities is for one do determine for oneself. So is the idea of "christianizing" these festivities. But it's just worth noting the churches today are doing nothing by having their "harvest festivals" around OCT 31 that the Roman church didn't do centuries ago. And having games, but no door-to-door begging; and costumes, but no "scary" ones-- not really good sense. If the idea of costumes came into it because of familiar spirits coming to possess a new body, vampire or fairy would seem to make no difference.

 

[gekko]

wow. you make a real great point there alcott. i have never agreed with "harvest festivals" either. i just never knew how to properlay explain it. good on ya.

gekko.

 

[Marcia]

I'm about as Halloweenistic as you can get because I was born on Halloween! Not only that, so was my son (2 weeks before his due date)!!

I could not vote because Monday night my sister and I took my son out for a birthday dinner. My turn is yet to come.

My view on Halloween is that Christians who are okay with observing it should be allowed to do so (though I do not think children should dress up in scary or death-centered costumes) and those believers who do not like it should not have anything to do with it.

And you have those who hand out candy with a tract. I myself am uncomfortable observing it.

I have an article on Halloween at
http://cana.userworld.com/cana_halloween.html

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by gekko:


Ancient Origins
Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in).


By A.D. 43, Romans had conquered the majority of Celtic territory. In the course of the four hundred years that they ruled the Celtic lands, two festivals of Roman origin were combined with the traditional Celtic celebration of Samhain.

Rome never entered Ireland, the true home of Samhain (actually pronounced saw-wean. It was not the Roman church who adapted it to fit their structure, but the Irish Celtic Church which had a close indentity with nature, just like the Celtic religions did.

 

[gekko]

the celts were not just in ireland. they were in europe, and a little east-ward. read your history. i don't know everything either. i just read it. yah, celtic priests a.k.a. druids. druid means "founder of the oak tree" it's nature. it was not christians who started making halloween nicer. it was catholics.

gekko.