And that Reformed site is supposed to represent all the Calvinists on this board?? Do your own poll and prove your own self wrong.
I simply showed that some Reformed/Calvinists believe that God sends babies who die to hell. That is absolutely true, and that site proved that.
And I have started a poll, but so far no Cal/DoG/Ref has responded.
When you directed us to your Reformed site. Quit talking out of both sides of your mouth. In one statement you say all Calvinists, then in the next statement you change it to say all Christians. Just admit that you are confused.
I will show you my original quote;
Winman said:
The fact is, almost no one really believes in Original Sin. Take any poll among Christians and ask them whether they believe God sends little children or babies who die to hell, and probably 95% or more will adamantly say NO. Only the most extreme hyper-Calvinist or perhaps Catholic might say yes.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2101156&postcount=161
Did I say all Calvinists believe God sends babies to hell here? NO! I said probably 95% or more among "Christians" would adamantly say NO. I said only the "most extreme" hyper-Calvinists or perhaps Catholics "might" say yes.
So who is lying here? Who is misrepresenting what another said? YOU!
Absolutely right: J.W., Mormons, SDA, etc. They all call themselves Christians. Do you want me to add to that list? All these sects that stand outside Christian orthodoxy do not believe in the depravity of man. Welcome to their group.
No, I meant traditional Christians like Baptists, including Reformed Baptists and all mainline Protestant denominations like Methodists or Lutherans for example.
Are you claiming you have "the same flesh" that Jesus has? Are you also divine? That is quite an arrogant claim Winman? Jesus was virgin born. Are you?
I am claiming that Jesus had "the same" flesh and blood you and I were both born with, and I provided scripture that says exactly that.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of
the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
You can read, does this verse say Jesus took part of "the same" flesh and blood as us?
Jesus may have been born of a virgin, but he was still "made of the seed of David according to the flesh".
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
It is you that holds to medieval superstition that sin is passed through the flesh. You are stuck in the fourth century. This is Gnostic belief which the scriptures warn about. The scriptures say anybody who denies Jesus came in the flesh is not of God but the spirit of antichrist.
You receive your mother's father's DNA through your mother. Jesus received David's "seed" through Mary. In fact, Jesus had DNA all the way back to Adam through Mary. The Jews knew Jesus was the physical descendant of David, their most common name for him was "Son of David".
Mat 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said,
Is not this the son of David?
Once you study that verse out and find what it is teaching then perhaps it will make things clearer for you. But for now it would be better that you don't take it out of context and make it mean something it doesn't teach.
He was born of a virgin that he would not inherit a sin nature. But you won't believe that either. It is a matter of believe Winman.
Their sin is part of the Fall, which in turn started the process of the second law of thermodynamics. It set in motion the depravity of man, and the depravity of all things in this earth--even animals and the thorns and thistles among the plants.
Jesus is God. He was tempted like we are. He could not sin. That is a subject for another thread.
We are sinners the day we are born. We are conceived that day. Even David said that in Psalm 51:5. But Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, not by a human.
It was an illustration.
As a child is born with fetal-alcohol syndrome so man is born with sinner-depraved syndrome. He can't help but sin.
Here is some further information on Jonah 4:11 from the NET Bible.
4:11 Should I
36 not be even more
37 concerned
38 about Nineveh, this enormous city?
39 There are more than one hundred twenty thousand people in it who do not know right from wrong,
40 as well as many animals!”
41
Note footnote #40:
It refers, as I pointed out before, those that have no moral discernment. They are so depraved they know not their right hand from their left.
We use the same idiom today.
For example: You're such a fool, you don't know your right hand from your left!
--That is an example, and that is how it is used. The Lord was speaking of the moral depravity of the people. They needed the light that Jonah could give them, and that is why he sent Jonah, as a missionary to them.
Blah, blah, blah again. You seem to believe that the more you say, the more correct you are. Nonsense.
Jesus was born with "the same" flesh as you and I. God in heaven cannot be tempted, but Jesus was flesh and could be tempted in all points as we are, yet he never sinned. He could be touched with the "feeling" of our infirmities (weaknesses).
The scriptures tell us EXACTLY why Jesus was born of a virgin, it was a SIGN. There is not one word in scripture to support your superstitious view that Jesus had to be born of a virgin to escape a sin nature.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you
a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
