How I get to which day is the "Lord's Day"

[mojoala]

the RCC will do it again this very day

Do you have any proof to substantiate this? If not then recant because I could say with the same if it weren't prohibited by mere circumstance that protestants would kill and torture Catholics in the same manner they did in the past for what they believed.

So leave the past in the past. Both sides made grave mistakes. But if you really want to get in to history please start a new thread about Christian Torture and Murder and we can get down it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Do you have any proof to substantiate this? If not then recant because I could say with the same if it weren't prohibited by mere circumstance that protestants would kill and torture Catholics in the same manner they did in the past for what they believed.

So leave the past in the past. Both sides made grave mistakes. But if you really want to get in to history please start a new thread about Christian Torture and Murder and we can get down it.

You're right - the Protestants may too!

Prove I can say this? We are still the same humans today than hundreds of years ago.
Yes, let's forget the past - but the past won't let itself be forgotten, not as long as we have its fruits with us in this 'new world' of us - the past still governs, and nowhere clearer so than in the case of Sunday-worship.

 

[mojoala]

You're right - the Protestants may too!

Prove I can say this? We are still the same humans today than hundreds of years ago.
Yes, let's forget the past - but the past won't let itself be forgotten, not as long as we have its fruits with us in this 'new world' of us - the past still governs, and nowhere clearer so than in the case of Sunday-worship.

Amen, Amen,

 

[Claudia_T]

Jesus didnt repeat the Sabbath commandment?

so if Jesus hadnt of repeated the commandment about Thou shalt not kill you guys would be advocating that its ok to murder people now? LOL! what kinda reasoning is that?

 

[Claudia_T]

Can anyone show me where in the Bible it says that we should celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday because of the Resurrection of Christ?

Do you think it wouldve been ok to change the Sabbath for some reason before the resurrection of Christ? Why now is that ok? for whatever reason you can think up?

WOW I wouldnt want to think I could go around changing God's Law just cause I feel like it!

Lets see now, I think that I will decide that its now ok to commit adultery because.... ummmm... well I'll think of something!!

 

[BobRyan]

Bob said
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Some RC posters wildly hope that Is 1 can be "spun around" to say God - (Christ the Creator) is unhappy with HIS OWN memorial of Creation - instead of being unhappy with the members of the ONE TRUE CHURCH started by God at Sinai!!




But we see God strongly AFFIRMING His own Holy Day in Is 56 and 58 and ...

Isaiah 66 "From Sabbath to SAbbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" (Stpeaking of the New Heavens and New Earth)

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind not mankind MADE for the Sabbath - the Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath"

mojoala

I must be doing good, if all you can challenge is one verse!:saint:

All I "can challenge"???

Surely you have been on this board longer than that!

How about answering the point above?

The fact that instead of Isaiah 1 showing us how God was growing increasinly unhappy with HIS OWN choice of a holy day -- what we see in Isaiah 66 showing us the ultimate CLIMAX of emphasis and application of that day in the "New Heavens and New Earth" when ALL MANKIND comes before God to worship on that day!! "From Sabbath to Sabbath".

Exegesis demands that we view it as did the author of the text for original intent. So "making stuff up" at this point won't fly.

Since the rest of your post did nothing to address the point of your bogus claim in Isaiah 1 - and the way it was seen to fail the test of scripture in Isaiah 56, 58 and 66 -- I will address it in the next post.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Switching now from Isaiah 1 and Isaiah 66 -- to Mark 2:27

Where CHRIST the Creator says "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not mankind MADE for the Sabbath"

Speaking of the MAKING of BOTH - in Gen 1-2:3. (Creation week)

Mojoala

Yes the Sabbath was made for man.

Man can choose his own Sabbath as needed.

What???!!!

You are telling me that the day God "blessed and sanctified" can now be DROPPED and ANOTHER chosen by the "traditions of man" instead - for MAN to "BLESS and Sanctify" as if he was God??

What part of Exodus 20:8-11 said "CHOOSE you a day -- one out of seven will do... MAKE that day holy and sanctified by your own power and keep it. Do that and I will be happy."

Funny - but your doctrine appears NOWHERE in the text!!

(I guess that is nothing new for the RCC - but why would you want to use it here?)

By contrast to your "MAN picks any day he wants and sanctifies his own selection"--

The actual "Bible" says this --

Ex 16
23 then he said to them, ""This is what the LORD meant:

Tomorrow is the Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the LORD[/b

]. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.''
24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it.
25 Moses said, ""Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field.
26 "" Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.''
27 It came about on the seventh day that some of the people went out to gather, but they found none.

28 Then the LORD said to Moses, "" How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions[/b]?
29 ""See, the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.''
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Mojoala

Bob Ryan does your church forbid those to work on Saturday?

No - God does.

Ex 16
23 then he said to them, ""This is what the LORD meant:

Tomorrow is the Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the LORD[/b

]. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.''
24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it.
25 Moses said, ""Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field.
26 "" Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.''
27 It came about on the seventh day that some of the people went out to gather, but they found none.

28 Then the LORD said to Moses, "" How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions[/b]?
29 ""See, the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.''
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Ex 20
8 ""

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it

you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Question: Why do you guys always leave the easy questions for me??

Mojoala
In reality, every day is the Sabbath. We are called to worship God everyday, not just on a Seventh.

What a great idea - you should mention it to God!!

He said "SIX days you shall WORK --" and then rest on the Sabbath. But you claim that we should rest EVERY DAY - keeping EVERYDAY as Sabbath!

I say send that suggestion up the line and tell me if you have any success with it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Everybody, please be mindful that the SDA position is that if you don't observe the Saturday Sabbath, you are going to burn in hell.

When I want to SHOW what the RCC teaches I quote from THEIR commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II, or from one of THEIR well known historians or from one of their PAPAL publications --

I see.... "no source" for your claim above.

Why not try a more intellectually honest method?

I highly recommend it as a good way to keep the discussion honest.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[LeBuick]

Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.

Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.

1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.

Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says "let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath."

2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of "another day," which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, which was on Sunday.

Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.

Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ..

Bingo.. One thing, Man began to worship the sabbath instead of using it as a day of rest. The sabbath was intended so man could have a day of rest. Look how many times Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath and would try to explain its true purpose. Man just wouldn't get it would he?

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 1:10 John makes no mention of Sunday or "Week day one" or any reference to the first day of the week.

Heb 7 - makes no mention of Sabbath or Sunday or the Ten commandments. Heb 7 refers only to the Law of the Priesthood. For example the "LAW" that all priests must descend from Levi.

Heb 4 - "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the People of God" makes no reference at all to Sunday. or "Week day one".

2Thess 2:15 makes no mention at all of Sabbath OR Sunday. NOR does it state that honoring the first day of the week is a "new tradition" to start keeping.

Col 2:16 references only the ceremonial "Shadow Sabbaths" of Lev 23 - the Annual feast Sabbaths based on animal sacrifices. Even the RCC denies that the 4th commandment is "cultic" as in - applicable only to the Jews.

1Cor 16:2 Paul says NOTHING about taking up collections or making public contributions (church contributions) on week-day-1. He says that each one is to save "by himself" -- to "lay in store by himself" - to SAVE at the start of each week. Nothing at all is said about "having a meeting on week-day one". Furthermore IF this is a reference to "Week day one" being "the Lord's Day" -- Paul does not tell us about it.

Acts 20:7 -- nothing is said here about this being a regular weekly event -- only that this meeting took place SINCE Paul was about to leave. The idea that "they are meeting since they always meet on this day" is not in the text.

The Gospel writers REVEALED that Jesus rose on "Week day one" (not the Lord's Day) - BECAUSE that is when He rose from the dead. They never state "because in doing so He gave us instruction to keep week day one as the LORD's Day AND as the new Sabbath".

But that certianly would be something TO SAY if that was a teaching they had in mind.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[mojoala]

What is the Baltimore Catechism?

 

[Melanie]

The RCC is best at multipying laws - never one asked for by God or provoked by Scripture. They also added that Mary should be worshipped. The trademark of idolatry is Law upon Law. God nowhere in His Word asks to be worshipped every day like on the Day He especially created for that purpose. Do as you like and dream it impresses God.

No,it is not anywhere that we must do so, but it is because I am profoundly humbled by His majesty that I wish to do so......I cannot impress God I am one of His creatures....however I am impressed by His works and His love for me that He sent His only begotten Son to save me and the human race. I do not worship Mary....she is a creature of God but I venerate her as being the mother of Jesus. To do less is an insult to her Son.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

so if Jesus hadnt of repeated the commandment about Thou shalt not kill you guys would be advocating that its ok to murder people now? LOL! what kinda reasoning is that?

Lol, what kind of reasoning is yours, lol!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Can anyone show me where in the Bible it says that we should celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday because of the Resurrection of Christ?

Do you think it wouldve been ok to change the Sabbath for some reason before the resurrection of Christ? Why now is that ok? for whatever reason you can think up?

WOW I wouldnt want to think I could go around changing God's Law just cause I feel like it!

Lets see now, I think that I will decide that its now ok to commit adultery because.... ummmm... well I'll think of something!!

Can anyone show me where in the Bible it says that we should celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday because of the Resurrection of Christ?
Nobody can. You haven't noticed what I want you to see?, to show that the Bible says that we should celebrate the Sabbath on Sabbath Day=Seventh Day because of the Resurrection of Christ!

Do you think it wouldve been ok to change the Sabbath for some reason before the resurrection of Christ? Why now is that ok? for whatever reason you can think up?

Can't you see the Sabbath for the reason of the resurrection of Christ has been changed? From a Law and Jewish Sabbath, to the Sabbath of redemption and all redeemed. Here is Isaih's meaning of the Sabbath on the new earth - yet the sabbatharians are blind to it. For whatever reason you can think would the resurrection not bring about such a change?

Lets see now, I think that I will decide that its now ok to commit adultery because.... ummmm... well I'll think of something!![/quote]

You are a pain!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

[/b][/i]



All I "can challenge"???

Surely you have been on this board longer than that!

How about answering the point above?

The fact that instead of Isaiah 1 showing us how God was growing increasinly unhappy with HIS OWN choice of a holy day -- what we see in Isaiah 66 showing us the ultimate CLIMAX of emphasis and application of that day in the "New Heavens and New Earth" when ALL MANKIND comes before God to worship on that day!! "From Sabbath to Sabbath".

Exegesis demands that we view it as did the author of the text for original intent. So "making stuff up" at this point won't fly.

Since the rest of your post did nothing to address the point of your bogus claim in Isaiah 1 - and the way it was seen to fail the test of scripture in Isaiah 56, 58 and 66 -- I will address it in the next post.

In Christ,

Bob

One can get his lectures in exegesis through correspondence courses, if he cannot attend university daily. Or he could just read BobRyan on Baptistboard.
Anyway, apply your teaching a bit:
Quote: "Exegesis demands that we view it as did the author of the text for original intent." Now read your post just before this one - What is intended in the full record of the Sabbath's institution at creation? One does not READ anything of mankind's involvement; neither of Jesus Christ's. So how can you say I'm not allowed to say the ultimate intention of this Scripture is to fore-see Christ in His finishing of alll the works of God, yet you see fir to bring in its applicability to mankind? If it weren't for Christ, this institution would have been of no value for and of no bearing upon humankind.
""

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting LeBuick,
"the sabbath was intended so man could have a day of rest."

It'd nice to read some thought-provoking observation.

But that man could have a day of (physical) rest is only a by-product to "man's good"-dia anthrohpon. The ultimate Purpose of God with 'creating' the Sabbath Day, was so that man could enter into His Rest-Katapausis through Jesus Christ - could one day receive the grace of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. Hebrews chapter 4 teaches this all-encompassing truth, and then comes to the inevitable conclusion about the Sabbath's purpose: "THEREFORE THEN there remains valid for the People of God (their, or their keeping of) the Sabbath Day-sabbatismos"

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting Mojoala,
"Man can choose his own Sabbath as needed."
No. man chose the day chosen for him by the Church - universally - and only the wretched Sabbatharians protest. I have never met one dissenter! Why don't you go to worship on Monday, perhaps? You think your priest wil every week come over to your place?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting Moyoala,

"In reality, every day is the Sabbath. We are called to worship God everyday, not just on a Seventh."

Another of those RCC laws I have previously referred to.

But here again is most obvious how the Sabbath is always viewed - by both Sabbatharians and anti-sabbatharians - as having all to do man's works, as if GOD's works of and on the Sabbath DAY, are of no consequence.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

God sanctified the Seventh Day - that is, reserved it - for His Ultimate Purpose in and through Jesus Christ.

 

[LeBuick]

Quoting LeBuick,
"the sabbath was intended so man could have a day of rest."

It'd nice to read some thought-provoking observation.

But that man could have a day of (physical) rest is only a by-product to "man's good"-dia anthrohpon. The ultimate Purpose of God with 'creating' the Sabbath Day, was so that man could enter into His Rest-Katapausis through Jesus Christ - could one day receive the grace of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. Hebrews chapter 4 teaches this all-encompassing truth, and then comes to the inevitable conclusion about the Sabbath's purpose: "THEREFORE THEN there remains valid for the People of God (their, or their keeping of) the Sabbath Day-sabbatismos"

True about physical only being a by-product of this blessing, however, is Heb 4 referring to the sabbath, spiritual rest (as in the gift of giving all your burdens over to Christ)[v3] or eternal rest with God (v9-11)?

A piece of bread can be rest to a starving man (rest from the state of hunger) but how does a sinful man rest from that which is in his nature? Jesus in the wilderness (v15b) showed us that satan is more likely to attack when not only the physical man is weak, but when also the spiritual man is weakened by life. So yes, our GOD knows rest is very important but it is equally important that we carry our cross. Paul then gives us the objective in verse 16 when he says to come boldly before the throne. Thoughts?

I believe we must meet the physical needs for rest before we are allowed into ones spiritual needs of rest. This is the natural order of our defense mechinism's, our physical seems to takes priority.

When Jeus healed the man who had been lame he gave him physical rest from 38 years of waiting for the angel and laying by the pool but what about his spiritual man? Does the Bible just leave that part out or was there more to this story? The man picked up his bed and left but where did he go? Did he have a home? After 38years in the same spot even the post man knew where to bring his mail....

Peter and John had a man walking, leaping and praising GOD (physical) with a little "such as", but how long did that morning joy last?

He forgave the woman about to be stoned (physical) then told her, now don't do that again (spiritual).

Now I consider the woman at the well as spiritual rest. Jesus masterfully penetrated the physical by 1. accepting her 2. knowing all about her. When she went saying come see a man, she didn't say he was living water (the lesson of the day) she said this man knew all about me (spiritually connected). Interesting that in this she found rest...