How is the Wrath Of the Father Appeased if Not PST Atonement?

[37818]

I disagree, but that is fine.

Why do you believe מָוֶת is speaking of multiple deaths on the cross?

בְּמֹתָ֑יו
Is plural of. מָוֶת

And given that the wicked and rich are both referred in His burial is the reason for the Hebrew plural does not change Jesus death for sin was prior, John 19:28, to His death, John 29:30, for His resurrection.

 

[JonC]

בְּמֹתָ֑יו
Is plural of. מָוֶת

And given that the wicked and rich are both referred in His burial is the reason for the Hebrew plural does not change Jesus death for sin was prior, John 19:28, to His death, John 29:30, for His resurrection.

I disagree with your interpretation. But thank you for explaining it so that I would know your meaning and support.

There are no two deaths that people die. The "second death" is the lake of fire. This is a judgment given to Christ.

 

[37818]

I disagree with your interpretation. But thank you for explaining it so that I would know your meaning and support.

There are no two deaths that people die. The "second death" is the lake of fire. This is a judgment given to Christ.

In John's account Jesus had accomplished, John 19:28, what He said, "It is finished," about before He physically died, John 19:30. That is explicit.

 

[JonC]

In John's account Jesus had accomplished, John 19:28, what He said, "It is finished," about before He physically died, John 19:30. That is explicit.

Jesus was talking about his surfing and death. His death was immediately forthcoming. He had accomplished what he had sought to accomplish. He died, not as a sinner in the eyes of the Father but as His beloved Son, His Righteous One. And God raised Him on the third day.

 

[Salty]

six hour notice
due to length - this thread shall be closed no sooner than 430 am EDT / 130 am PDT

 

[percho]

I believe the Hebrew מָוֶת does not signify plural "deaths". It is not plural as in two deaths. The passage is talking about two things concerning one physical death.

What was accomplished, IMHO, is that Christ obediently obeyed the will of the Father. The Word was made flesh, bore our sin, shared in our "sickness" became a curse for us, and suffered and died a sinners death at the hands of wicked men under the principles of the darkness of this world and by the predetermined plan of God for the redemption of man.

As in, "dying he did die". The death assigned Adam. The soul that sins it shall die.

 

[percho]

Jesus was talking about his surfing and death. His death was immediately forthcoming. He had accomplished what he had sought to accomplish. He died, not as a sinner in the eyes of the Father but as His beloved Son, His Righteous One. And God raised Him on the third day.

Unless I understand incorrectly, dying is exactly what he came to do. Finished indeed.

 

[percho]

I wish I could wrap my brain around closing really active threads !?

 

[JonC]

I wish I could wrap my brain around closing really active threads !?

I agree.

Sometimes it makes sense to close a thread at a given length and sometimes it does not.

 

[37818]

Jesus was talking about his surfing and death. His death was immediately forthcoming.

False!
John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now it is finished [τετελεσται], . . ."

 

[JonC]

False!
John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now it is finished [τετελεσται], . . ."

I understand that you believe it to be false.

Using your method the only way that Jesus could have said "it is finished" and indicated the totality of his mission would for him to die and then all of a sudden gasp "it is finished" as a mini-resurrection.

Jesus had accomplished all that He had come to accomplish in terms of becoming "flesh", taking on our infirmity. What was left was Him to commit His Spirit to the Father and die. His work was done. His "mission" of redemption was accomplished. He had submitted to suffer and die under the powers of this world (the powers of sin and death) at the "hands of wicked men".

John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, *said, "I am thirsty." A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

His earthly mission was done. It was accomplished. And He committed to the Father His Spirit.

Have you ever considered that the reason you believe that there were "two deaths", and the reason PSA advocates strongly look to a "spiritual death" not actually mentioned in Scripture as being redemptive, may be that you are too focused on Jesus' death apart from Jesus' life? His death (as with our deaths) are the culmination of a life lived on this earth. His "blood shed" is His life given which begins when He humbled Himself and became flesh. The "atonement" (which more accurately is His "reconciliation") encompasses much more than dying on the cross.

 

[Salty]

six hour notice
due to length - this thread shall be closed no sooner than 430 am EDT / 130 am PDT

This thread is closed

Feel free to start another thread on this subject.